Pirater vos avantages militaires pour devenir financièrement libre

Bienvenue au numéro 68 du podcast BiggerPockets Money avec Jay Grayson de FedonFire.com.

«J: Au total, je reçois plus de 25 000 $, plus mon chèque de paie, plus un logement gratuit pour toute l'année. Elle et moi vivons simplement de cet argent TDY, de ces 25 000 $, tout en maintenant nos dépenses, ce que nous essayons de maintenir de toute façon. "

Le temps est venu pour un nouveau rêve américain, qui ne consiste pas à travailler dans une cabine pendant 40 ans, à peine à se frayer un chemin. Que vous cherchiez à mettre de l'ordre dans vos finances, à investir l'argent que vous avez déjà ou à découvrir de nouvelles voies pour créer de la richesse, vous êtes au bon endroit. Ce spectacle est pour quiconque a de l'argent ou en veut plus. C'est le podcast BiggerPockets Money.

Scott: Comment ça va tout le monde? Je suis Scott Trench. Je suis accompagnée de ma coanimatrice, Mme Mindy Jensen. Comment ça va aujourd'hui, Mindy?

Mindy: Scott, je vais très bien. Comment vas-tu aujourd'hui?

Scott: Oh, la vie est belle. Je suis très excité pour Jay aujourd'hui.

Mindy: Je suis tellement excitée pour Jay. Nous avons eu quelques invités militaires sur cette émission et sur le podcast BiggerPockets Real Estate, mais cette émission s'adresse aujourd'hui à tous ceux qui sont actuellement dans l'armée, qui sont récemment sortis de l'armée, ceux qui envisagent de se lancer dans l'armée, quiconque qui veut en savoir plus sur le piratage domestique, le géo arbitrage, le piratage journalier. Si vous avez un travail où vous voyagez, même si vous n'êtes ni au gouvernement ni dans l'armée, oh, c'est aussi pour les employés du gouvernement. Je veux dire que ce spectacle est pour quiconque a des oreilles.

Scott: Oui. Ou des yeux qui veulent lire. Voyons qui d'autre est-ce? Pour tous ceux qui veulent de l'argent, qui ont de l'argent ou veulent en avoir plus, c'est un spectacle tellement incroyable. Jay m'a impressionné avec tous ces petits trucs qu'il a et ça ne va pas… Toutes les situations ne vont pas s'appliquer à toutes les personnes qui écoutent, mais je pense que n'importe qui qui écoute peut obtenir quelque chose de cette émission aujourd'hui.

Scott: Oui, il n’a pas eu le meilleur départ possible, puis il applique les avantages qu’il a accumulés et un changement d’esprit vif dans la poursuite de FI et y fait vraiment beaucoup de progrès, ce qui est incroyablement rapide et nous y arriverons. juste quelques minutes ici.

Mindy: Oui, je suis tellement excité. Avant de faire venir Jay, écoutons une note du sponsor de l’émission d’aujourd’hui.

Scott: Prendre des risques financiers peut sembler logique à ce moment-là, mais quand ils se transforment en grosses erreurs, nous finissons par être stressés et brouillés. Être bon avec de l'argent et adhérer à des processus peut être difficile, surtout si vous dirigez une entreprise. Pour les propriétaires d'entreprise, il est important d'éviter les erreurs financières, car une solution de comptabilité simple telle que FreshBooks peut vous aider. FreshBooks est un logiciel de comptabilité en nuage qui garantit que vos finances sont bien suivies et organisées et que votre entreprise est conforme au moment de l'impôt. Voici comment FreshBooks aide.

Premièrement, il vous permet de rester organisé avec un suivi du temps simple et intelligent pour vous et votre équipe. Deuxièmement, lorsque le moment est venu de collecter, vous pouvez créer et envoyer des factures très bien finies en environ 30 secondes ou moins. Il vous permet d’enregistrer et d’organiser vos dépenses en appuyant simplement sur votre caméra mobile et vous permet de payer en un clin d’œil en acceptant les paiements par carte de crédit directement sur ces factures. Encore mieux, FreshBooks vous permet de rester en conformité avec les rapports utiles dont vous aurez besoin pour la saison des impôts. À l'heure actuelle, nous proposons à nos auditeurs un essai gratuit de FreshBooks pendant 30 jours, aucune carte de crédit requise. Allez sur FreshBooks.com/bpmoney et entrez BiggerPockets Money dans la section comment avez-vous entendu parler de nous?

Mindy: Je ne suis pas très doué pour arriver tôt à des endroits, surtout lorsque je me rends assez tôt à l'aéroport pour éviter de perdre mon anxiété de vol. C'est pourquoi je suis si enthousiaste à propos de nos nouveaux projets, Clear. Clear vous aide à passer la sécurité du bout des doigts pour vous permettre d’accéder plus rapidement à votre porte et de réduire le stress avant le vol. Clear remplace le besoin de cartes d'identité physiques, en utilisant vos yeux et vos doigts pour vous aider à traverser la sécurité parce que vous êtes votre meilleur identifiant. C'est tellement facile de s'inscrire.

Vous créez un compte en ligne avant de vous rendre à l'aéroport et l'ambassadeur Clear vous aide à mener à bien le processus une fois que vous y êtes. De plus, vous pouvez l'utiliser immédiatement. Mais attendez, il y a plus, il est clair que ce n'est pas juste pour les aéroports. Clear vous aide également à accélérer la sécurité dans les stades. Plus de 40 aéroports et stades à travers le pays, et de plus en plus chaque jour. Mais le mieux pour moi, c’est que les enfants de moins de 18 ans passent avec moi gratuitement. Lorsque je voyage avec toute la famille, il est possible d'ajouter jusqu'à trois adultes à un tarif réduit.

Clear est le meilleur moyen de passer la sécurité de l’aéroport. Cela fonctionne aussi très bien avec les techniques de pré-technologie. À l'heure actuelle, les auditeurs de mon émission peuvent obtenir leurs deux premiers mois de clair gratuitement. Rendez-vous sur clearme.com/bpmoney et utilisez le code BPMoney. C'est clearme.com/bpmoney et utilisez le code BPMoney pour vos deux mois gratuits d'effacement. Merci beaucoup au sponsor du spectacle d’aujourd’hui. Jay Grayson, et bienvenue dans le podcast BiggerPockets Money. Comment vas-tu aujourd'hui?

J: Je suis excellent. Le printemps est enfin arrivé sur la côte Est. Le temps se réchauffe donc je suis très reconnaissant pour cela. Comment allez-vous les gars aujourd'hui?

Mindy: Je vais bien. Il fait plus chaud ici aussi. Il est censé être dans les années 50 aujourd'hui, ce qui est plutôt délicieux.

J: Excellent, excellent.

Mindy: Jay, pourquoi ne commencez-vous pas à nous guider là où commence votre voyage avec de l'argent?

J: J'ai grandi dans une petite ville agricole du sud rural et mon père est un agriculteur de petite ville. Nous avons grandi dans une famille à faible revenu, assez pauvre. Mon père a fait faillite dans les années 80 à cause de la crise agricole. Surabondance de l'offre, les prix des produits agricoles chutaient rapidement. En cas de faillite, nous n'avions pas beaucoup d'argent. Puis dans les années 90. Je n'ai jamais su que nous avions un faible revenu car mes parents veillaient toujours à ce qu'il y ait de la nourriture sur la table. Il y avait beaucoup de spaghetti et du pain grillé au fromage et des choses comme ça mais nous nous sommes toujours sentis comme si nous allions bien. Nous n'avons jamais eu l'impression d'être pauvres ou à faible revenu. Mes parents ont fait du bon travail en prenant soin de ça. Puis, dans les années 90, j’ai deux frères et soeurs et ma sœur aînée a reçu un diagnostic de cancer du cerveau en phase terminale dans les années 90. C'était évidemment très émouvant pour la famille, mais aussi financièrement. Ne vient pas d'une grande éducation d'argent.

Mes parents et mes grands-parents étaient très gentils avec cette post-dépression, mettez votre argent sous le matelas, ne savaient rien sur vraiment investir. Si vous savez quelque chose au sujet de l’agriculture, le gagne-pain d’un fermier est sa terre. Investir dans des actions, des obligations, etc., était à peu près inexistant. Nous n'avons pas fait grandir cette éducation. Après le décès de ma sœur à la fin des années 90, je suis tombé dans une période difficile. Ma sœur et moi avons traversé beaucoup de difficultés, une sorte de famille fragmentée. Je me suis mis à boire et à me droguer et je suivais un chemin vraiment sombre pendant mes années de lycée. J'ai décidé de faire un changement radical, alors je me suis enrôlé dans l'armée quand j'ai eu 18 ans et je suis parti juste avant la fin de mes études secondaires. Est-ce que pour un enrôlement. J'étais dedans pendant cinq ans.

Je suis sorti de l'armée et j'ai fait beaucoup de mauvais choix financiers parce que, encore une fois, je n'avais pas beaucoup d'argent pour grandir, je travaillais à la ferme pour un peu d'argent ici et là. Au moment où j'ai quitté l'armée et est allé à l'université, j'ai obtenu mon diplôme à l'université. J'avais une dette de plus de 30 000 $. Un peu de dette d'études. La majeure partie de ce montant a été financée par le projet de loi sur les IG, qui est destiné aux anciens combattants pour faire face aux coûts de l'éducation. Mais oui, j'avais une dette de plus de 30 000 $. J'ai décidé de reprendre le travail du gouvernement. J'ai pris un boulot qui me faisait payer 30 000 $. Pas beaucoup d'argent, mais je vivais genre de chèque de paie pour payer chèque à ce moment-là. C'était dans un appartement cher. J'avais de nouveau de l'argent alors je me sentais bien à ce sujet. À peu près à cette époque, c'était en 2014 et c'est à ce moment-là que j'ai découvert l'indépendance financière.

Scott: Eh bien, laissez-nous faire un petit retour en arrière dans votre temps dans l'armée. Quelles étaient certaines de ces personnes, vous avez mentionné que vous prendriez de mauvaises décisions financières au cours de cette période. Quelles sont certaines de ces décisions qui vous viennent à l’esprit?

J: Absolument. L’un des plus importants de l’histoire de l’armée était que j’aimais vraiment les voitures, les voitures de sport, etc. Je suis sûr que vous savez bien que vous ne gagnez pas une fortune en tant que membre enrôlé dans l'armée, en particulier ces premières années où vous occupez un rang très bas alors que j'utilisais encore cet argent pour acheter des véhicules. À un moment donné, je pense avoir cinq véhicules. J'ai eu un El Camino. En fait, j’avais deux Honda S 2000 parce qu’il est nécessaire d’en avoir une pour votre voiture de tous les jours et un deuxième ou votre pilote de week-end que vous gardez dans l’état vierge, ce qui semblait une bonne décision financière à l’époque.

C’était probablement mes plus grosses erreurs financières et je ne contribuais pas assez au programme 401k parrainé par mon gouvernement, il s’appelle le TSP au moment où j’ai été enrôlé. Ils mettent tout dans ce qu'on appelle le fonds G automatiquement lorsque vous entrez dans l'armée, qui ne sont que des fonds du gouvernement. Toutes les années précédant la crise financière, lorsque je connaissais ce portefeuille d'investissements ou que je savais quoi que ce soit au sujet des actions, j'aurais pu ajuster cela et gagner probablement beaucoup plus d'argent. Oui, je n'investis pas correctement dans mon argent, j'achète des actifs qui se déprécient tels que des voitures. Oui, c'était probablement ma plus grande erreur là-bas.

Mindy: Viviez-vous dans un logement gouvernemental ou hors de la base?

J: Pendant les trois premières années, j'étais dans un logement gouvernemental même si je ne gagnais pas beaucoup d'argent. Lorsque votre logement et vos repas sont payés, il vous reste un peu. Mais je soufflais tout ça sur les repas, les voitures et des choses de ce genre.

Mindy: Repas dehors? Le gouvernement vous donne un pourboire, des toasts, et comment appelle-t-il cela?

J: Mais quand vous êtes un marin de 19 ans et que vous voulez un double cheeseburgers chez McDonald’s, vous allez acheter cela ou allez acheter un steak ou autre chose parce que le chow hall n’est tout simplement pas assez bon.

Mindy: Oui, je pense que c'est un bon point. À 19 ans, on vous demande de prendre toutes ces décisions concernant les adultes et vous n'êtes pas à cet endroit. Cela semble impoli, vous n'êtes pas spécial à cet égard. Vous n'êtes pas la seule personne à avoir décidé, je ne vais pas manger cette nourriture gratuite, je vais aller dépenser de l'argent parce que je le veux. Je veux dire que c’est vraiment très intéressant de constater que c’était votre état d’esprit à l’époque.

J: Je pense que cela remonte également à ne pas provenir d'une éducation financière stable et avoir cela… dites: «Hé, regardez, ces repas sont gratuits.» Une fois que j'ai rejoint l'armée et que j'avais le mien, un chèque de paie substantiel, J'ai bien dit c'est mon argent. Venant d'un milieu pauvre, c'est comme, eh bien, c'est mon argent. Je vais faire ce que je veux avec elle. Je vais le dépenser pour toutes ces choses. N'ayant pas cette base, je pense vraiment me mettre sur cette trajectoire qui prend de mauvaises décisions financières.

Mindy: Oui. Vous n'êtes pas nécessairement la seule personne à avoir fait cela.

Scott: En quelle année as-tu terminé tes études secondaires?

J: En 2004.

Scott: 2004. Cette période de 2004 à 2014, est-ce tout simplement une sorte d'accumulation de voitures, une sorte de choses à comprendre, toutes sortes de choses? Ou avez-vous progressivement été un peu plus à l'aise avec la gestion de ce genre de choses avant cette révélation FI en 2014?

J: Droite. Quand je suis sorti de l'armée, ils venaient juste de présenter le projet de loi post-11-11, qui, au lieu de simplement recevoir une allocation standard, vous pourriez… Les collèges participeront et vous donneront ce qu'on appelle le programme du ruban jaune. Si les collèges participent à cela, ils vous donneront une bourse pour couvrir le reste des dépenses. Pour moi, et à l'époque, c'était en 2009, la crise financière a touché le fond, mais j'ai décidé de quitter mon emploi dans l'armée et de retourner à l'école. J'ai eu mon premier cycle en économie. Je pense que cela signifie que le financement n’est pas nécessairement lié, mais l’économie présente certains changements.

Je pense que c’est là que j’ai commencé à en réunir deux ou deux et j’ai créé une entreprise à ce moment-là alors que j’allais à l’école. Ce qui a été un succès modéré pour les trois premières années. Malheureusement, à cause de la crise financière, personne n’était prêteur et nous avons connu une croissance un peu trop rapide et nous ne pouvions plus suivre le rythme. Cette activité a fini par se désagréger et c’est alors que j’ai décidé. C'était de 2009 à 2012 et c'est en 2012 que j'ai décidé, hé, que ce commerce ne le coupe plus. Je suis sorti de l'école et j'ai décidé, heu, je suis prêt pour ce chèque de paie stable, alors je suis entré dans la fonction publique du côté civil à ce moment-là.

Mindy: De quel type d'entreprise s'agissait-il et avez-vous déjà envisagé de le redémarrer?

J: C'était une entreprise de livraison de bière et de vin. J'étais en Floride à l'époque, c'est là que je suis allé à l'école. Nous avons organisé de nombreux événements d'entreprise, beaucoup d'activités de restauration pour les voyageurs de Disney, ce genre de choses. J'ai pensé à recommencer. Malheureusement, il y a maintenant beaucoup d'entreprises qui font ce genre de choses. À l'époque, personne ne le faisait, mais maintenant que la concurrence est… Ce n'est pas le genre d'entreprise dans laquelle je voudrais revenir. C’était beaucoup de conduite, beaucoup de travail, pas que je s’oppose au travail, mais de la brique et du mortier. Je veux être un peu plus, si je crée une autre entreprise, être un peu plus indépendant de l'emplacement.

Mindy: Avez-vous quitté l'armée avec une dette?

J: J'ai fait. J'avais une dette de carte de crédit à cette époque. J'ai eu des prêts de véhicule. J'ai vendu tous mes véhicules, j'en ai payé la plupart, mais j'avais une dette là-bas. C'est à ce moment-là que j'ai pris la brillante décision de retirer de mon 401k, de l'encaisser et d'utiliser cet argent pour payer mes dettes, ce qui était plutôt correct. Ensuite, j'utilise aussi une partie de cet argent pour financer l'entreprise, ce qui a été une excellente expérience d'apprentissage. Je n’ai aucun regret, mais avec le recul 20-20, ce n’est pas une bonne idée de retirer de l’argent de votre 401k. Presque jamais.

Mindy: Je serais d'accord. Bien que j’ai contracté des emprunts auprès de mon 401k pour faire d’autres choses parce que je me paie moi-même les intérêts au lieu d’une banque et que les gens seront des deux côtés et c’est bien. Mais avez-vous tout encaissé?

J: Oh, la chose entière. J'ai pris une coupe de cheveux énorme. Il avait déjà diminué de 40% à cause de la crise financière. Si je l'avais laissée là quand le marché reviendrait, cela aurait été formidable. Cependant, ce n'est pas ce que j'ai fait.

Mindy: Oui.

J: Mais c'est vrai. Si vous avez suffisamment de connaissances financières, Mindy, comme vous le disiez, peut mobiliser un emprunt bon marché et l’utiliser pour faire un investissement ou simplement obtenir un taux d’intérêt inférieur. Si vous améliorez votre maison ou si je sais que vous aimez vraiment changer de maison, vous avez déjà beaucoup joué. Si vous utilisez ces fonds pour gagner de l'argent, tant mieux. Mais je n'étais pas nécessairement, j'ai remboursé des dettes, ce qui est une bonne chose pour démarrer une entreprise. Ce n'était pas terrible, mais si j'avais su ce que je sais maintenant, je n'aurais jamais retiré cet argent.

Scott: À la suite de cela, j'ai entendu une dette d'environ 30 000 $ plus tôt dans l'émission, n'est-ce pas? Ce 401k a-t-il effacé presque tout cela et vous a-t-il permis de repartir de zéro après le collège? Est-ce…

J: Non, je m'étais approché de zéro après ma séparation de l'armée, mais avec mes trois années d'études à l'université et l'entreprise, je suis sorti, j'avais une expérience personnelle, j'ai finalement fermé l'entreprise. J'avais un prêt personnel, une petite dette d'études et une dette de carte de crédit. Ce que j'utilisais pour financer mon entreprise ou mon mode de vie. Je vivais plutôt sobrement à l’époque mais j’avais un petit revenu de l’entreprise. Je remettais tout dans l'entreprise.

ensuite, Je pensais également que, lorsque vous utilisiez le projet de loi IG, vous bénéficiez de ce que l’on appelle une allocation de base pour le logement, qui consiste simplement en une allocation destinée à couvrir vos frais de subsistance pendant que vous allez à l’école. Je vivais essentiellement de cela. Mais entre-temps, l’accumulation de dettes de cartes de crédit, de prêts étudiants et de tout le reste. Je passais probablement de presque 10 000 dollars de dette post-militaire à presque zéro, puis lorsque j'ai obtenu mon diplôme de premier cycle, j'avais environ 35 000 dollars de dette lorsque j'ai rejoint le gouvernement civil.

Scott: Une dernière chose à faire avant d’arriver à ce genre de point de départ post universitaire. Je tiens simplement à souligner que la dette de 30 000 $ que vous avez accumulée ici ne me semble pas si grave. Il semble que cela soit en fait tout à fait raisonnable dans le sens où vous l'avez utilisé principalement pour obtenir un diplôme et pour démarrer une entreprise en même temps; oui, il existe des moyens d'éviter de prendre la responsabilité personnelle des entreprises dans certains pays. cas. Mais il semble que ceux-ci étaient des risques calculés plutôt que la deuxième voiture de fantaisie du même type que nous avions précédemment, non?

J: Une partie de cette dette était une voiture, mais c’était une voiture que j’utilisais… Une voiture très modeste que j’utilisais pour le commerce.

Scott: Non, absolument.

J: Oui, c'est vrai. Globalement, ce n’est pas terrible, mais quand même si votre école est payée et que vous avez toujours vos diplômes avec une dette, certaines personnes la regardent et disent: comment? Comment vous êtes-vous retrouvé avec une dette quand votre collège a été payé?

Scott: Eh bien, vous vous bousculiez. Vous essayez de démarrer une entreprise.

J: J'essaie. Essayer dur, essayer durement.

Mindy: D'accord. Passons à après le collège. Vous avez une dette de 30 000 $ à 35 000 $ et vous trouvez maintenant un emploi. Combien de temps at-il fallu? En quelle année avez-vous obtenu votre diplôme et combien de temps vous a-t-il fallu pour trouver un emploi après avoir obtenu votre diplôme?

J: J'ai obtenu mon diplôme en mai 2012 et j'ai commencé. Je dirigeais l'entreprise jusqu'à probablement à l'automne 2012, lorsque j'ai décroché un emploi au sein du gouvernement fédéral. J'ai commencé à travailler en décembre 2012. Il y a quelques mois revenu et encore, vivre de cartes de crédit juste pour obtenir jusqu'à ce que commence ce nouvel emploi. J'avais décidé à ce moment-là, d'accord, je veux rembourser cette dette. J'avais plus de connaissances financières à l'époque parce que je suis allé à l'université. C'était en général plus instruit, mais les finances personnelles n'étaient toujours pas un domaine dans lequel j'étais très fort, mais je savais que je voulais payer cette dette et que je voulais être plus stable financièrement. Je voulais tirer le meilleur parti de… J'ai presque perdu une partie de ma rémunération lorsque j'étais militaire, alors que je travaillais pour l'armée, à mon arrivée au service fédéral.

Je gagnais moins que dans l'armée. Je me sentais un peu vaincu. Je suis dans la vingtaine avancée à ce stade et je reviens sur le marché du travail en gagnant 33 000 $ ou 35 000 $ par an. Mais ce n'était pas grave, j'étais déterminé à faire en sorte que cela fonctionne. Oui, j'ai commencé cela en 2012. Environ un an et demi plus tard, je vais dire début 2014, lorsque je suis tombé sur M. Money Moustache et que j'ai découvert l'indépendance financière et que j'ai peu de temps après trouvé Brandon de Mad Fientist soufflé. Wow, c'est vraiment possible et cela a ouvert la voie à l'indépendance financière.

Mindy: D'accord. À quoi ressemblait votre situation financière au cours de votre première année d’emploi?

J: J'ai emménagé dans ce que je pensais être un studio abordable au centre-ville de cette petite ville dans laquelle je vivais, à faible coût de la vie. Je déménage de la ville d'Orlando à cette ville de Caroline du Nord. Cela semblait raisonnable. C'était inférieur à ce que je payais à Orlando. Cependant, si j'avais fait un peu plus de recherches, mon loyer aurait pu être beaucoup plus bas. Je me débrouillais encore un peu mieux que chèque de paye au moment où je recevais le plan d’épargne d’épargne, le gouvernement 401k, j’étais assez sage sur le plan financier à ce moment-là pour obtenir au moins la concordance et la diversification. les stocks.

Je me débrouillais un peu mieux sur ce front, mais je payais surtout chèque pour payer chèque à l'extérieur, mais j'y investissais quand même, mais payais chèque pour payer chèque en dehors de cela. Pas dans une excellente situation financière, mais en train de faire mieux que moi. J'avais également consolidé une partie de ma dette et je la payais. C'est à ce moment que j'ai commencé ma phase de réduction de la dette. Une fois que j'ai découvert l'indépendance financière, j'ai lancé une allumette et cela a accéléré. J'ai commencé à réduire les dépenses et à chercher des moyens, d'accord, comment gagner plus d'argent, progresser dans ma carrière, obtenir une promotion. Cela a vraiment commencé en 2014. J'ai eu l'occasion de m'installer en Nouvelle-Angleterre et où le salaire local, qui est destiné aux employés du gouvernement est essentiellement un pourcentage, c'est essentiellement un coût de la vie. Pas une allocation, mais un pourcentage qu’ils retiennent sur votre salaire de base pour compenser en partie certaines de ces zones où le coût de la vie est plus élevé.

En trouvant l'indépendance financière, M. Money Moustache, en apprenant à propos de Geo arbitrage, j'étais comme, hé, je peux occuper ce poste. C'est une promotion en Nouvelle-Angleterre. Je vais avoir… Vivre dans le New Hampshire, dans le sud du New Hampshire, mais obtenir le paiement de la localité de Boston. C'était un bon moyen. Le coût de la vie dans le New Hampshire pour la Nouvelle-Angleterre est très bas. Pendant ce temps, le salaire de la localité pour Boston est très élevé. J'ai emménagé dans un petit studio de 300 pieds carrés, pas très bien situé, et j'ai commencé à accélérer le remboursement de cette dette.

Mindy: Pendant combien de temps avez-vous travaillé en Caroline du Nord?

J: J'étais en Caroline du Nord depuis environ un an et demi.

Mindy: D'accord. Ensuite vous avez déménagé? Comment vos dépenses ont-elles changé? Vous avez plus d’argent, mais on dirait que vous avez réduit vos dépenses tout en gagnant plus d’argent?

J: Droite. En Caroline du Nord, je payais 800 dollars par mois, plus les frais de services publics, ce qui était élevé pour la région dans laquelle je vivais. Mais lorsque j'ai déménagé dans le New Hampshire, je gagnais un peu plus d'argent. Maintenant, je gagnais 40 000 dollars, la quarantaine, et je vivais aussi dans un studio. C'était aussi 800 $ mais les services publics inclus. Mon salaire avait augmenté, mon salaire local avait augmenté, mais mes frais de subsistance avaient diminué un peu et c'est alors que j'ai décidé de regarder le marché du logement là-bas et j'ai décidé, hé, le loyer d'un logement est beaucoup moins cher d’acheter que de louer dans cette région à l’époque.

J'ai décidé, c'était fin 2014, j'ai décidé d'acheter une maison et de trouver des colocataires. Je ne savais pas ce que le terme piratage de maison signifiait à l'époque, mais je parlais de piratage de maison. À ce moment-là, j'ai déménagé de l'appartement à la maison. Des colocataires couvraient en gros la moitié de l'hypothèque et des frais. Maintenant, j’avais réduit mes coûts de logement encore plus bas tout en construisant un peu d’équité et que les prix du logement dans la région montaient en flèche au cours des trois ans et demi où j’avais vécu dans cette maison. À l’époque, j’ai pu faire payer aux colocataires la moitié de mon hypothèque et de mes services publics, puis, au moment de la vente, j’étais en mesure d’en tirer un profit substantiel en me basant sur l’appréciation.

Scott: Pouvons-nous parcourir les chiffres de cet achat? Il semble que ce soit un élément central du voyage, ici.

J: Oui, vraiment, pendant ce temps, c'est double. Le logement en était un à ce moment-là, en avait assez mis de côté pour payer ma voiture. Ma voiture, je ne payais plus pour une voiture, a payé cette dette. Encore eu une autre dette. Je remboursais, j'avais probablement entre 20 000 et 25 000 $ de dettes à cette époque. L'achat de logement, je l'ai acheté pour 177 en décembre 2014. Mon prêt hypothécaire était d'environ 1 200 $, vous ajoutez dans les services publics, il était d'environ 1 500 $. À tout moment, un ou deux colocataires payaient 500 dollars par pièce.

Certains mois, ma part ne représentait que 500 dollars. Ils contribuent à la constitution de fonds propres dans cette maison et j'ai pu la vendre, en y mettant très peu de travail. Quelques petites choses quand je me suis préparée à vendre, juste pour améliorer un peu, mais je peux être mis, je ne sais pas, 2 000 $ ou 3 000 $ dans le total de la propriété. Juste quelques travaux cosmétiques qui ont contribué à l'attrait et à la décoration intérieure et ont été en mesure de le vendre 215 000 $ trois ans plus tard. Un très bon bénéfice là-bas.

Scott: Impressionnant. Pour en revenir à la voiture, je veux dire que ce sont deux des dépenses essentielles pour la plupart des gens, non? C'est le logement et le transport, non? Vous faites de l'argent avec votre logement à ce stade en raison de la façon dont vos faibles dépenses en argent, puis de votre appréciation et de le récupérer avec une vente, puis vous avez une voiture payée. Quel genre de voiture était-ce?

J: C'était un Scion XB, le petit grille-pain sur roues. Ce que je vais dire, un autre, je vais revenir un peu en arrière. Entre le moment où j'ai fermé l'entreprise et occupé le gouvernement fédéral, j'avais contracté un prêt étudiant, nous étions censés faire partie de ma classe supérieure, nous étions supposés partir en voyage en Europe. Cela a fini par être annulé alors j'ai décidé que j'allais faire mon propre voyage. J'ai pris cet argent de prêt étudiant et un de mes amis, nous avons emballé dans ce grille-pain sur roues et avons conduit pendant un mois à travers le pays. C'est là que ce prêt étudiant est allé. C’est une autre chose, je ne veux pas appeler cela une erreur financière, car c’est l’une des meilleures expériences de ma vie et je pense que nous devons en tenir compte tout au long du processus, mais cela n’a pas amélioré ma situation financière.

Scott: Non, absolument. Mais je veux parler de ces deux choses, comme avoir zéro ou très bas, il me semblait que c'était essentiel pour pouvoir commencer à progresser dans l'accumulation de liquidités ou le remboursement de la dette ou la prochaine étape.

J: Absolument, absolument. C’est quelque chose qui est évidemment très reproductible, peut-être moins. La deuxième chose qui m'a vraiment aidé à effacer ma dette, le reste de ma dette, ainsi que de construire un pécule et de commencer à investir. Alors que je travaillais dans le New Hampshire, j'ai décidé, tu sais quoi? Il me reste encore une facture de GI, je vais aller à la maîtrise et obtenir un MBA. L'allocation pour les anciens combattants qui vont à l'école dans cette région, parce que vous êtes près de Boston, je suis allée à l'UMass. Mon allocation était de dire 2 200 ou 2 400 $ par mois, ce qui a légèrement fluctué, a augmenté au cours des deux années où j'ai passé école. Je travaillais à plein temps, j'avais eu une autre promotion alors que je travaillais dur et que je me prouvais. J'ai une autre promotion.

À ce point, Je faisais dans le milieu des années soixante, peut-être haut soixante. J'allais à l'école les nuits et les week-ends. Voici un avantage si l'un de vos auditeurs expérimentés peut en tirer des leçons, j'appelle le piratage de factures GI, où vous travaillez à temps plein, allez à l'école. Vous ne devez suivre qu'un seul cours de résident pour obtenir votre allocation de logement complète à partir de la facture IG. Je faisais 50/50 ans, 50% en ligne, 50% sur le campus, et je devais aller à l’école gratuitement et obtenir un master gratuitement. Je reçois également 2 400 $ de plus par mois, que j’utilise pour effacer ma dette et créer mon pécule pour investir. Pendant ce temps, je n'ai pratiquement pas de frais de subsistance pour les gros frais généraux tels que le logement et les transports. Ces deux choses, allant de réduire le logement et les transports, puis d’utiliser les outils dont je disposais en tant qu’ancien combattant et d’en profiter pour faire du géoarbitrage dans une perspective de projet de loi sur les IG, cela a vraiment accéléré les choses.

Mindy: D'accord. Je dois regarder sur mon visage de pure comme wow et je ne pense pas que Scott soit aussi enthousiasmé par cela que je le suis. Peut-être que je ne comprends pas cela. Vous êtes retourné à l'école et tout ce que vous deviez faire était de suivre un cours en personne, c'est-à-dire pas en ligne mais vous devez assister au cours, et le gouvernement vous a donné 2 200 dollars à faire avec quoi que ce soit? Comme ils ne payaient pas votre hypothèque, ils n'aimaient pas payer en logement étudiant. Ils ont juste, voici 2,200 $ par mois.

J: Droite. Vous devez suivre une charge de cours complète, ce qui correspond à une maîtrise de neuf heures de crédit, trois cours. J'en ai pris une sur le campus, parfois deux, une en ligne, en fonction de la charge de cours. Parfois, j'en prenais un sur le campus, deux en ligne, mais juste en allant à l'école «à plein temps», j'irais peut-être deux soirs de semaine et un soir de week-end, généralement deux ou trois jours par semaine, quatre heures à la fois. Pas un engagement de temps énorme. Je ne veux pas dire ça. Travailler à plein temps et aller à l’école était difficile, mais je me consacrais à rembourser cette dette et à augmenter ma valeur nette. Je pense que beaucoup de gens comprennent mal que le projet de loi GI peut être un peu délicat.

Pour ceux qui se trouvent dans cette situation et qui ne savent pas, faites-le absolument. Cela augmente également votre potentiel de revenu, que vous soyez dans l'administration fédérale ou dans le secteur privé. Maintenant, vous recevez une éducation gratuite et ils vous paient de l'argent directement sur votre compte bancaire. Comme tu le dis, Mindy, mon logement n’a pas été payé et les dépenses scolaires n’ont pas augmenté. Il a été déposé directement sur mon compte tous les mois.

Mindy: D'accord. Nous allons simplement réitérer ceci pour tous nos auditeurs militaires, lorsque vous allez chercher votre GI Bill, vous payez votre collège. Quand vous y allez, faites un tour chez vous et trouvez des colocataires, puis ils paieront votre allocation pour que tout soit payé. Je veux dire, tout n’est pas payé, je suis désolé de ne jamais avoir fait cela auparavant. Je ne devrais pas dire que tout est payé, mais la vache sacrée, vous avez un travail qui couvre tous vos frais de subsistance. De plus, voici 2 200 $, ce qui couvre facilement votre prêt hypothécaire. Aviez-vous encore l'hypothèque? Viviez-vous toujours dans la maison à l’époque ou avez-vous déménagé?

J: Non, je vivais encore à la maison dans la maison à l'époque.

Mindy: OK OK. Scott, es-tu suffisamment excité maintenant?

Scott: Oui, très excité à ce sujet. C’est le pouvoir d’un milieu militaire dans lequel vous essayez de rechercher une indépendance financière, devenez entrepreneur ou autre. Il y a un certain nombre d'avantages énormes, non? Un, l'allocation, et trois, l'enseignement supérieur, non? Deux, les prêts VA, non? Trois les soins de santé, non? Assurance maladie VA, non? Ces trois, et je suis sûr qu'il y en a plus, mais ces trois semblent être les piliers absolus de plusieurs histoires que nous avons entendues sur le passage rapide à l'indépendance financière des anciens combattants, n'est-ce pas? Rightly so. Can I ask you, Jay, did you use the VA loan for that house? Was that a VA loan?

J: J'ai fait. I paid zero down. I had zero upfront costs to purchase that house. No money out of my pocket. Also I am glad you mentioned the healthcare, I am a disabled veteran so I do not pay for healthcare. I get all my healthcare through the VA which I also get a small disability stipend from the military or from the VA because of my disability. Between those things, you add in the stipend, not having pay for healthcare costs and I know these things are not repeatable for everyone, but I think the moral of the story is, hey, look at your employer, look at the opportunities. A lot of employers do, even if you are not a veteran, they do tuition assistance, things like that. Take full advantage of the benefits, your 401k matching all of those things. Any healthcare benefits, HSAs, whatever you can to really reduce your expenses while also building your net worth.

Mindy: Oui.

Scott: What I love about this is that you recognize all these advantages, you see the concept of FI and then you go all out basically over the next couple of years here. You moved to New England, you physically relocate, you buy a house hack, right? You leverage all of your benefits, the absolute max, right? Because you are using the VA loan, you are getting a massive stipend here. You have got a cost of living adjustment for a high cost living area while you live in a low cost living area. You are working full time and obviously kicking butt because you are getting promoted … period and you are getting your part time, right? What did you do for fun? Fun during this period?

J: Well, as you know, craft breweries, lots of craft breweries in New England. On the weekends, I would, after all that stress, go and partake in a couple of New England IPAs here and there. That and hiking, a lot of free activities. The white mountains and that part of the country. Lots of hiking, camping, those sorts of things, kayaking, just being in the outdoors. Skiing, I did not grow up skiing, did that a little bit which was terrifying. Even as a marine, you get on top of those mountains, it can be a little bit scary so I do not know how you guys do it out there in Colorado. I will probably do it again at some point but I am looking for smaller mountains these days.

Scott: Your first lift right up one of these mountains out here is pretty terrifying.

J: I am sure.

Mindy: Come visit and I will take you skiing. I will take you on the little hills and then we will go to the bigger hills and then we will go to the great big hills. Okay, this may not be repeatable for everyone but it is definitely repeatable for all of our military listeners and we are definitely going to reach out to our military blogger friends like Doug Nordmann. Oh my goodness, I am blanking on his blog because it is all for military and I am not military. I do not read it that frequently but I know he is huge. David Pear from military to millionaire, I believe it is the name of his blog. We are going to reach out to all of them and make sure that they know that this episode is available because this is huge. This is amazing and I have never heard this.

Again, I am not military, so the GI bill does not apply to me. But this is really, I mean, I am speechless. This is amazing. This is still, you can take lessons from this. House hacking is available to every single person. House hacking is an excellent way to reduce or completely eliminate your housing expenses and there is a really awesome article on BiggerPockets about how is hacking and the whole concept and that we will link to that in the show notes which can be found at biggerpockets.com/moneyshow68. But this, this is just fantastic. I love how you said, your employer could have ways to pay for college. We had Zach Gautier on episode 64 where he talked about how to pay for college, all these different ways to fund your college. Mainly for kids but there is definitely opportunities to pay for post like regular college age. I do not know how to say this. Scott, save me please because I am just fumbling over here.

Scott: Well, I think it is just being creative about how you are going to approach your journey, right? Like maybe if you did not have the stipend, maybe that changes the equation on going and getting that MBA in the first place, I do not know, but I think that it is kind of just all about assessing all of those things in and your benefits and how it will impact things, right? Because I mean these degrees are very expensive and are they going to have that trade off in pursuit of FI? I do not know. In this case, you could make money while getting an opportunity to earn even more with the degree. That is a no brainer, right? Like that is kind of clearly be a winner to a certain extent.

J: Droite. Even for, so on the federal civilian government side, even with that I know the agency that I worked for, they offer tuition assistance which will cover most, if not all, or a local like state college will cover a lot of those expenses. A lot of government agencies offer that type of things and private employers too. Anytime, there is free education benefits and you can build your resume and increase your knowledge and your education. Absolutely, go forth and do that. If it is free, it is free. Take advantage of it. There also a lots for federal civilian employees, there are so many opportunities. Other things I have done to help increase my net worth. I mean everyone has to get… if you are in the federal service, you are in some jobs series where you have to get certifications, you are traveling for training or you are going to conferences or you are going to give briefs.

In the federal government, when you travel, you get paid your lodging as well as what is called MAIE and a, which is meals and incidental expenses. That ranges anywhere from $50 to $100 a day, you are on travel. That just goes directly into your pocket. I forget who mentioned it, it was on your podcast at some point. Someone was mentioning, I believe it was on, on BiggerPockets Money. Maybe it was the frugal words. We are talking about going down for breakfast and making lunch sandwiches while at breakfast. I do that all the time. Every time I travel I pocket all that mill and incidental expenses because I just go to the hotel and if you stay at somewhere like a Homewood Suites or Embassy Suites where they also have a dinner and cocktail hour and you can essentially go get breakfast for free and make yourself a sandwich for lunch, grab a couple eggs, you have lunch and then you come back, get a free drink and dinner and you did not spend a dime.

I have done that quite a bit and I am currently on the biggest travel hack of my federal career, which has really really expedited things. I am actually in Washington DC right now on a long term TDY, Temporary Duty Assignment. I am here for a year and currently my girlfriend and I are living in this gorgeous apartment right across a river here in Arlington and we are saving 100% of our incomes right now. We have zero cost because the government is paying for our lodging and living expenses. If you are a federal government employee, seek out those opportunities and travel as much as possible.

Mindy: D'accord. No, you cannot just drop that.

Scott: Before we get to that, let us build the rest of your story into this point and then they will hover this. Sorry, I know Mindy’s antsy to hear exactly how this happened.

Mindy: Oui.

Scott: I do too but let us keep going linearly across this. In 2014 you buy the house and you stay there for three years until 2017, right? At the same time, you are getting your MBA, you are getting the stipend, you are living frugally. I imagine you exhibit frugal tendencies towards other major expenditure categories like food for example. Kind of as you just mentioned where you would craft that all extra breakfast stuff and all that kind of stuff. But you are not interestingly foregoing a lot of the fun stuff like the outdoors activities and the craft beer and all that kind of stuff, right?

J: Oui. I sold the house at the beginning of 2018 and the reason I started, my girlfriend and I, she had taken a promotion in Baltimore and I had, because of it, I do not want to downplay this because I think this is really important too and you guys discuss this all the time, you can cut expenses drastically but at some point if you really want to accelerate things, you have got to increase your earnings. Again, if you are in the federal government, if you are willing to move and you are a hard worker and you show that you have got that tenacity, the promotions are out there.

I took a promotion to move to southern Virginia and my girlfriend took a promotion to move to Baltimore because we both knew that I was going to be on this rotation in DC, in the Baltimore DC area, for a year. That was definitely part of the plan. At this point now, during that time I am steadily getting promotions and so I would gone from when I first got into federal service making mid-thirties, by the time I sell the house, take the promotion down in Southern Virginia, I finally hit six figures. Work your way up along the way and I know some people, it is tough. You have kids, I do not have kids personally, I have two fur babies, two cats, but they are pretty easy to travel. Relocation is not something everyone can accomplish easily but how bad do you want it and how willing are you to make a couple of sacrifices and relocating in order to really boost your income?

Scott: What happens at your net worth over that over that three year period in New England?

J: I hit net worth is zero at the end of 2015. I spent about a year, a year and a half getting my debt to zero and I would build a little bit of a nest egg. I started investing. I went from I will just say zero to hundreds of thousands of dollars in the matter of three years, 2016, 2017, 2018, and now like I said at the beginning, I am pretty much, some people say the term lean FI, whatever you want to call it. Between my small disability stipend and the assets that I have stored up. I do not have to work, I choose to. I want to build that nest egg to a more comfortable level. It would be a very, very lean, lean life which I live currently a lot of Costco, Aldi. Do you guys have Aldi out in Colorado?

Scott: No, no Aldi.

J: That is… But Scott, you love it. I can actually out my window, I can see Costco from here.

Scott: I actually go yesterday, it was great.

Mindy: The only problem is you cannot walk to Costco because I cannot bring all your stuff home. Every once in a while I will go to Costco and I see somebody on a motorcycle. I am like, what are you getting here? There is literally nothing you could like put in your pocket. It is all like 40 gallons of mayonnaise.

Scott: I am just there for the free samples, the ultimate food hack.

J: Here is the deal. You can go on Amazon or Walmart, wherever, you can get these cheap roll-out carts that fold up. My girlfriend got one and it is the best thing ever. Just folds up, we literally walks to Costco, it pops open, we throw everything in it, check out and it is like a little red rider wagon and we pull it home.

Mindy: Oh my goodness, he even walks to Costco. I love this.

J: I walk everywhere. I have zero transportation costs now. There is great public transit here so I have zero transportation costs.

Mindy: D'accord. You said there is great transportation here, that is in Washington DC?

J: In DC? Oui.

Mindy: D'accord. Can we please talk about that now, Scott?

Scott: Oui.

Mindy: Vraiment. To talk about this zero living expenses hack that you have. Your girlfriend took a promotion to Baltimore and did you know that there was this temporary duty assignment coming up or did you just apply for it or hope for it? All these cities are really close together. I am not from the East Coast. I know Scott is from Baltimore.

Scott: When I grew up, my mother worked in Baltimore and my dad worked in a town called Alexandria, Virginia which is a little bit south of DC.

Mindy: How far away are these cities?

Scott: We lived in between. Yes, they are not very far. It is probably 50 minutes between the two, maybe an hour, yes.

J: Yes, between depending on traffic as always, you are about an hour between DC and Baltimore. Alexandria is just right up the road. Yes, they are all very close.

Mindy: D'accord. Your girlfriend took a job in Baltimore, how long was she in Baltimore before you came down to or did you go down the same time?

J: She moved to Baltimore in March of 2008 and then I moved to Southern Virginia, Richmond area, central southern, just south of Richmond. I moved there in May of 2018. We spent a few months apart and then we kind of travelled back and forth to see each other on the weekends for a bit knowing that I had already applied for and been accepted to that rotational assignment here in DC. We already knew that going into us living separately that eventually instead of being three hours away and more southern Virginia from Baltimore, that I would be right there in DC.

We were both renting at the time and then I came to DC on the rotation and she is like, why are we living in two separate places? Why do not I get out of my lease, I will come live with you in DC for free and I will just take the train to Baltimore because the government will pay for her transportation costs. I was like, yes, that is a great idea. Let us do that. At this point she is getting on the FI path. She is trying to pay down her student loan, that is all. She has got a whole story in of herself if you guys ever want to be hired.

Mindy: Does she work for the government too?

J: She does. We both worked for the same agency.

Mindy: D'accord. I was like why does the government pay for her train ticket? But because she works at… Okay. The government has you assigned to wherever you used to live and now you are just temporarily in Washington DC?

J: Oui.

Mindy: How long are you temporarily in Washington DC?

J: I arrived here September of last year and I will be there until September of this year. All the while, we are basically that MNIE portion of that meals and incidental expenses. They pay the current rate, it just boosted up from 2018 to 2019. It is now I want to say $76 a day. In total, I am getting paid over $25,000 plus my pay check plus free lodging for the whole year. She and I are just living off of that TDY money, that $25,000, keeping our expenses under that which is what we try to maintain anyway. It is really easy when you do not have any lodging cost.

Scott: It is not like you mentioned the name of it earlier but it was like a long term or short term deployment or something like that. What was the name of this? Yes, it is long term TDYs. It is long term temporary duty.

Scott: Long term temporary duty, yes. Sorry, that is just…

Mindy: Sensationnel. What are you doing with your money? It is buying more S2000’s?

J: Yes, I have six… No. I am investing all of it. I did the math. I am actually saving 109% of my taxable income.

Mindy: Well, of course, a 109% because that does not exist. How do you save 109% of your taxable income? Because, oh, so you are making X plus you have no housing expenses, plus they give you in addition to paying your housing expenses, they give you an additional $76 a day so you can eat. I do not know how you can survive on such a small amount of food in a few months or in a few weeks. We are going to interview the savings Sherpa who claims he has $25 a week in grocery costs. We are going to get some recipes from him, we are going to talk about how he does that. But $25 a week versus $76 a day, how do you do it?

J: Costco and Aldi.

Mindy: I mean that just seems ridiculous that people could spend $76 a day on food. That is what you are using to live off of well saving 109% of your income. What are you investing in?

J: I invest in a variety of things. I maxed out my TSP which is the government version of 401K. I maxed that out and plus they give 5% matching. They do 3% on your first 3% they match and then a half percent for the next two. That gives you 4% and then they have an automatic 1% that they contribute. It is a total of 5%. I maxed that out. I also maxed out a Roth IRA and then I have some money in a peer to peer lending and some money in crowd funded real estate. Then I am currently putting a lot of cash aside and I am sure you guys have been watching the interest rates that banks are supplying now.

If you have not heard a CIT Bank, they offer over 2% on the money market accounts. That is where I am putting all my savings for my next real estate purchase. That will be I am searching hard for a duplex or triplex or quad in the Southern Virginia area because she and I will be moving back there. I have a decent amount, about 10% of my net net worth just in a savings account now strictly for real estate purchase.

Scott: Do you own any other real estate or besides, I guess you sold your first place, do you own any real estate that you privately hold?

J: I do not, just the crowd sourced a real estate which is more commercial real estate focused.

Scott: I imagine that you are accumulating quite a bit of after tax liquidity after you maxed out your Roth and after this TSP based in your savings rate with all this stuff. Is that why you are kind of shifting to real estate now and kind of am putting all this money aside in these money market accounts and coming up with that strategies because there is not enough places to store it pre-tax? J: Oui. Well that is part of it. Also, we have become accustomed to not paying for lodging. When we moved, we want to continue that. The biggest goal there is to do a house hack and when we moved back to Virginia, Southern Virginia, to have something that is going to put our lodging cost at zero, we want to maintain that so that we can continue. I want to build a small real estate portfolio, less than 10 properties probably.

I am not big on landlording but it is such an incredible tool towards financial independence that you cannot ignore it, at least in my opinion. I like the diversity too. The market’s been so crazy up and down lately. I want to diversify. I am very very heavily weighted in stocks. Overall, I am probably between stocks and bonds between my taxable accounts and my 401K. I am probably at about a 90-10 split, 90% stocks, 10% bonds. Because we are looking to hit our FI goal collectively between myself and my girlfriend within the next three to five years, we want to have some more stable outside income. Some more cash flow coming in. Real estate is definitely that avenue that we are approaching.

Scott: With your plans going into the future into the moving into Virginia and getting a house hack, would you consider using a VA loan for that or are you going to use a large down payment with the cash you set aside?

J: Probably, ideally we would use a VA loan but as you probably know with the VA loan, there are lots of restrictions. It is tougher to buy like a property you are going to rehab. If we are looking to do like use the BRRRR method or something to that effect, it is tough to do that with a VA loan versus a conventional loan or a rehab loan. Ideally if we could find a property that qualifies for a VA loan and put zero or just a little money down, but even if that is the case I want to have some liquid cash sitting there to do any types of upgrades or things that will really bring the property to bring the most money in.

Scott: Great, I love it. I have a lot of cash to give me more options and then yes, we will use the advantage of the VA loan if the property that meets the qualifications comes up but I think it is great, not using it gives you more options.

J: Absolument. Or maybe I will just throw it all in bitcoin, you know?

Scott: Voilà.

J: No, I am kidding, kidding.

Mindy: I do not recommend that.

J: No, definitely not.

Mindy: It is your money. Where is your girlfriend on her path to zero net worth? You said she still has some student loans.

J: When she started her path, she originally, when she went to a private school, she had over a $100,000 in student loan debt.

Scott: Oh mec.

J: She started her path about a year ago. I finally convinced her, which was not hard when you start with we could travel full time and work from the road. She is like, okay, yes, let us do that. She really got on the ball and she has paid off about $70,000 in student loan debt. She had around $120,000 and now she is around $45,000. While she is also maxing out her 401k, she is maxing out a Roth IRA. She is building her net worth while also paying down that debt.

Mindy: We interviewed Travis Hornsby from student loan planner on episode 22. He did not use the government job with the long term temporary duty assignment as I meant as a way to pay down loans. But let us look at your girlfriend for a second, she had $120,000 in student loan debt with whatever interest rate. Even if it is at zero, that is still a lot of money to pay off. What we talked about on episode 22 with Travis is that there are doctors and veterinarians and dentists who have all of these super high, like multiple six figure loans, not just a hundred. They have $300,000 or $400,000 or $600,000 in student loans and they are unable to make any sort of dent in it.

Your minimum payment does not cut it and it is just it is soul crushing and there is a huge rate of suicide frankly for a lot of these professions that are just so mired in this debt and your girlfriend has taken this, it is not a geoarbitrage, job arbitrage with this government job. I mean granted I do not know how many government veterinarians there are but there is a lot of jobs in the government that can help you pay down your debt just by having this travel. What did you call the travel hacking and GI bill hacking and per diem hacking and all of these hacks that, I mean, how is your life? Does it suck? It sounds like it is pretty awesome.

J: Yes, yes. Absolutely, absolutely.

Mindy: I mean it sounds like you are living your best life while also having zero expenses and living in an amazing city and going out and I mean living on $25,000 a year without having any expenses at all besides what food, right? Is that literally your only expense?

J: Pretty much. Food and, oh I do have a storage unit right now because we had to put our stuff somewhere which I cannot stand having a storage unit. But it is like a $100 a month. I mean that is my only real overhead expense and a Netflix account, shame on me.

Mindy: Oh my goodness, look at this Mr. Spendy Pants over here, a Netflix account and a storage unit. By the way, storage units are a really awesome way to make a lot of money in real estate because lots of people are just like you. ‘Oh, I do not have enough room so I need to put my stuff in storage and then oh it is only a hundred dollars a month.’ Then you just pay it and pay it and pay it. Yes, my parents have had a storage unit. They had two storage units, the biggest storage units they have. They moved it down to one but they have had it for 12 years or 11 years because they live in an RV and they travel around the country building churches. I am like, get rid of all this stuff in the storage you need. You do not need it anymore, but whatever.

Twelve years, they had been paying the same bill and there is just like two $250 a month. That is a lot of money. You can make a lot of money in storage units because people will put stuff in there and then it is only a hundred bucks, what is $100?

J: Absolutely, absolutely.

Mindy: Look into that too. If you cannot find yourself a duplex. Find yourself a storage unit.

J: Definitely, will do.

Scott: Also, what is next after you moved to Virginia?

J: Moved to Virginia. We hopefully can find a place that we can house hack. Then even if we did have small living costs in terms of housing, we are both be able to save and put back roughly 75% of our income if we continue our lifestyles. We do not want for anything, we actually, and I know this is going to sound terrible, we actually go out to eat two or three times a week and have fancy expensive beers two or three times a week and we still are able to live. When you do not have the housing cost or if you have low housing costs and you do not have transportation costs, you can still live on $25,000 a year or less and still have a really fulfilling life. Continue the lifestyle, continue investing, depending on the market of three to five years, if we have to work a little bit longer to really hit our are comfortable number then we will and that is where we are totally okay with that. But then that is when we plan on cutting the cord from traditional, employments and going onto more bigger and better things. Things that excite us more, traveling, helping.

We discussed, I have a niece who is extremely disabled and there are not a lot of organizations available to help a lot of those folks with her specific condition. She actually has a cousin that has the same condition so we have discussed starting a non-profit to help fund some of those healthcare expenses. My sister and my brother in law are both teachers, but even on low teacher salaries, they make too much money. They have actually had to cut down and take demotions in order to meet certain healthcare requirements, to get the stipends from the government or the health care coverage to help cover her expenses. We are looking into potentially starting a non-profit to help with that. Joining the Peace Corps, who knows, the sky is the limit.

Scott: No, that is awesome. That is what kind of gets me going at what I do here, with what we do with this BiggerPockets Money podcast. Because the carrot on the stick, the carrot that we dangle for everybody is, hey, go sitting margaritas on the beach and hang out. But no one does that. If you have the ambition and the drive, the hustle, the discipline to build a massive net worth and do all the things that you are doing, optimizing every front on the wealth generation equation and you end up achieving this FI within the next couple of years, you are going to go out and impact the world positively in some unique way. That is kind of this unique blend of the things that are you are passionate about where you are and what you are going to be good at it. J'aime cela. Like those, all of those things you just mentioned are going to make a huge positive contribution to society. I just, I love it. I think it is fantastic and a great goal.

J: Scott, you got your undergrad degree in economics, right? In finance?

Scott: I did, yes. Oui.

J: How much did you learn about personal finance in college?

Scott: Ah, I did not learn anything about personal finance in college. I did not learn about personal finance until I discovered Mr. Money Mustache, read it from Mad Fientist in 2014.

J: Absolutely, that is my point exactly. I would love to… I know the guys from choose FI, this is something they are really into. I would love to network with folks and say, hey, how do we give younger folks or even young adults or regardless like some kind of free access to personal finance education? It is not part of our curriculum as we are growing up in school, you know this. I think that is also something that I am very passionate about is teaching personal finance. I mean if you learn this at an early age, we would not have such a looming retirement crisis and student loan crisis and all that good stuff.

Scott: Yes, and then even with a niche and there, the military in particular, right? I mean there is so many, it seems like there is a lot of folks that go into the military and come out with a bad financial situation when a little bit of education in the right direction can produce a very strong foundation from which to go after this stuff.

J: Absolument. I always think the military is particularly interesting branch of that because of the benefits that you guys have and it just seems so perfectly suited towards a life of FI because you just have two of the biggest problems completely eliminated in the VA loan and then the health insurance.

J: Well, in military as well is one of the last places where you can actually still get a pension, right? Federal civilian service is the same way. We actually, we have enough time in the service and my girlfriend is also a reservists, she is going to get a reservist pension at is 60 and we will both get federal civilian pensions. We are going to do a deferred retirement. We only need to stretch our dollars for maximum of 20 years before we will receive pensions and then shortly after social security if it still exists, who knows? But we want to make sure even with those pensions and potentially social security coming, we want to make sure we have enough that if those things fall apart and do not happen, some massive government change happens, it is not funded, that we still have enough and we do not have to worry.

Scott: Aimer.

Mindy: Yes, I love that. I love the forward thinking of that because I have people in my life who have a pension, but it is not guaranteed and counting on that as your only source of income during your final years is really not the smartest manoeuvre. I really hope the government does not go out of business but I love that you are thinking past that and the whole non-profit thing. Wow, that is really cool because the whole financial independence thing is not about quitting your job. It is about having enough money to do whatever you want. If that is travel, if that is stay home with your kids and raise them. Working at your passion with no consideration for money.

My husband wanted to be a park ranger and never wanted to make, what do they make? Like $4 an hour or something. He did not want to have that job because it is not sustainable. I mean you cannot, I do not know how park rangers live off that, but now we live by rocky mountain national park so he can go and be a park ranger if you once because it does not matter what they pay, they pay nothing. Yes, that was kind of an abrupt stop. But yes, that is what this is all about. It is living your best life without considering, oh, how much am I going to make?

J: Droite. It is fine in that, what would I do if money were not an option? What would I do that paid zero but I would still get up every morning and go do it. That is a park ranger, absolutely. Spend time in nature, that is great.

Mindy: Rocky Mountain National Park is amazing. We will take you there. When we go skiing, we will plan another day to go up to a Rocky Mountain.

J: Parfait.

Mindy: D'accord. Is there anything else you want to share with our listeners before we move onto the Famous Four?

J: Ah, no, I think I am all set.

Mindy: Yes, this was fabulous. I am so excited to share this with like everybody I know. Okay, now it is time for the Famous Four questions. It is the same four questions or five questions, four questions and one command that we ask of all of our guests. What is your favourite finance book?

J: Okay, I have two. The first being for if you are a beginner and you are just getting into this or you know you are midway through, Scott Trench’s Separate Life is absolutely in sync.

Scott: Bien.

J: It was a game-changer for me. I was like man I am already house hacking. I need to do this some more. Really building that financial runway, it is just an incredible resource. Kind of nuts to spoon look at at financial independence. It is very accessible for anyone and steps you can take to really enhance your financial independence path. The second book is called Plenitude and it is by Juliet Shore. If you are already well on to your FI path and you are thinking about the future and I think it is a really good book. The subtitle was the new economics of true wealth and it is very along the lines of Vicky Robbins.

Her ideas, we have this our current economy in our current culture and stayed the way we are doing things is not sustainable. What does the new economy look like? You are starting to see it pop up in certain urban neighbourhood. People are growing more of their own food and doing these sorts of things, becoming more green if you will. I think it is kind of when you are thinking about, okay, how can I live a more sustainable, less impactful on the earth and on society. But I think it is very FI related if you read it in the right context.

Scott: That is great. I never heard of that book and I look forward to checking that out. Alright, what was your biggest money mistake?

J: I think we covered those, all the vehicles for one and then cashing out my TSP, my 401k when leaving military service, just terrible.

Scott: But if that business had worked out, would you still consider it a mistake?

J: Vrai. I guess not, I guess not. You take a risk, right? You take a risk and you have to.

Mindy: Did you know that the market was going to crash like it did?

J: No, of course not.

Mindy: Did you know that the market was going to shoot up like it did?

J: Absolutely not, you never know.

Mindy: You cannot really beat yourself up over these. I mean now, sitting over here in 2019, you are like wow, that was not such a smart move. But when you were doing it, you still paid off a lot of debt. You did not take it to the boats and gamble. It was still a fairly smart move.

Scott: I, a couple of months ago or maybe almost a year ago, interviewed Annie Duke who is a poker player. She wrote a book called Thinking in Bets on the BiggerPockets real estate podcast. I love the way she kind of thinks about things. It is about like was it a bad decision or was it a bad result on that? That is where I am kind of want to get at with the liquidating the 401k there. Yes, there is a lot of things no one is recommending liquidate the 401K but I think that you made a bet on that one versus a necessarily a bad decision and the bet did not work out. The result did not end up the way you wanted but I guess you could make the argument that that was not, if things are, if you would still thought it was a reasonable probability of success and you did that, it was not the worst mistake in the world compared to a lot of other mistakes that we have heard in the show.

J: Droite. I want to be clear, it was not like I had a ton of money in that 401K. I was not making a ton the military so I did not like wait a hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw into a business. It was a relatively insignificant amount in the big scheme of things. The risk reward ratio there, I felt, was worth it. Hindsight, obviously.

Mindy: 20-20.

Scott: Absolument. I just always try to think about things like, hey, did I get a bad result or did I make a bad decision on that? That is kind of it is sometimes difficult to separate the two and the thinking in and all that.

J: The lessons you learn in running your own business are invaluable. I mean, you cannot replace those. It is something that I will always look back fondly on.

Mindy: That is awesome. Okay, what is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out?

J: People say it all the time. It is a marathon, not a sprint. Something that I have been coming to grip with or have over the past year or so now that I am kind of I am at the point where, hey, I really could not leave my job today if I want it to. Just recently, within the past six months to a year, that has become the reality. It is like, oh, well I am running from a job but what am I running to?

I think you really need to think about, as you are in this process and you are building your net worth, focus on what you value and do some soul searching. Because like Scott said and Mindy you say it all the time, it is not all my tide is on the beach. That gets boring. What are you going to contribute to society? We are in a country and in a economic situation where we are able to do these things and build this type of wealth and that is very fortunate. What do we do to give back and better each other and better society?

Scott: Oui. You know there is a event that I go to every year and it is a meet up for a lot of folks that are interested in financial independence and that kind of stuff. There is always a good number of folks who are a couple of years into the journey and pretty close, like in your position. Like yes, I could probably do this. Somewhere in this spectrum, I am kind of lean right now. I really got a couple more years work to do. It sounds like that is where you are at and is in your mind for this kind of stuff. Then some people are like, well, I am way past whatever the conservative expectations are for this.

I am clearly FI. Like what do I do though? Like my identity is my job and all that kind of stuff. I think that that is a unintended consequences a lot of people do not think about, when they are starting on this journey, it is like what is going to come after this and how am I going to plan around that because it is kind of hard I think at that time that at the moment, once you get there, and you realize you are fine to actually make that leap and go do whatever it is that you are going to do after your job if you do not have that planned out ahead of time.

J: Bien. Scott, one of the things you see a lot on forums or blogs, like if you are on reddit or whatever, people go, ‘I am going to, once I hit my number, I am going to travel the world.’ Maybe they have never even been out of the country. Take some steps now to kind of dabble in some of your passions and dabble a little bit of travel to places you think you may want to see or live in potentially, more geoarbitrage, because you may get there and say, ‘Oh, this is kind of sucks.

Actually, I do not like it here. I want to be somewhere else.’ Do not just make a plan, but also test that plan a little bit and make sure it is what you want versus diving into it. Do not up and move to Peru when you have never even stepped foot in Peru before.

Scott: Absolument.

Mindy: That is a really good point.

Scott: I think a lot of people love traveling.

J: I do not like traveling that much, at least not right now. I am not a big traveler.

Mindy: Je vous remercie.

Scott: I just I do not want to go somewhere and hang out and from places. Like I lived in Denver because I like living in Denver. I do not want to go to Peru for four weeks and have an experience. Sorry, I am making fun of someone that it is not even here… But that is just not me. I think that some people are like, hey, that is what you do when you hit FI. Well, no, you do what you want to do. If you do not know what you want to do, you are in trouble because all that work is not going to pay off for you the way that you want it to.

Scott: Absolument. What, what do you value? It comes down. What do you value? What brings you joy?

Mindy: Exactement.

Scott: Bien. Well, one thing we all value is party. What is your favourite joke to tell at those parties? That was a horrible transition, but we will go with that.

Mindy: That is awful.

J: This is a terrible one but Scott, you may appreciate it since you got a degree in economics.

Mindy: If it is terrible, he will love it.

J: Three economists go hunting and they are in the woods and they see this giant buck walk up. The first economist grabs his rifle and he shoots and he six inches too wide to the left. The second economist pulls up his rifle and he shoots and he is six inches wide to the right. The third economist drops is rifle and jumps from joy and says, ‘Oh we got it, we got it.’

Mindy: That is actually a good one.

Scott: I am laughing but I do not get it.

Mindy: The average.

Scott: Oh.

Mindy: Because it is six inches to the right and six inches to the left.

Scott: I see.

J: Because economist make all this projection, right? They are always one economist is a little off, the other is a little off, but if you took their collective knowledge, they hit it right on.

Scott: Okay, fair enough.

Mindy: Okay, Jay Grayson, where can people find out more about you? Oh, I am sorry. This is the command, tell me where people can find out more about you.

J: Yes, ma’am. My girlfriend and I, we recently, it is now live, we started a website and it is geared towards veterans and federal employees. It is called FedonFire.com. There is virtually no content on there right now because we just started it but we have contents in the work and hopefully by the time this airs there will be plenty of content on there. We have lots to upload, I just need to get around to doing it. Yes, that or , that is our email address. Shoot us a line anytime.

Scott: Alright, we will link to both of those in the show notes there.

Mindy: Are you on Twitter and Facebook, others social, Instagram, what else is there?

J: I was going to but I have never been big on social and I think I am just going to leave it that way. It is just we get so many distractions from digital media constantly. I have a Facebook but I rarely get on itself. I do not think I am going to start a bunch of additional accounts.

Mindy: Well, I will recommend you starting them even if you do not do anything with them just so nobody else starts them. Like Scott Trench could not start Fed on Fire on Twitter and then be like, oh yes, here is the picture of it an S2000, you should buy one. You went to keep Scott from hijacking your name online so get everything that you can on social media.

Scott: I have like a hundred Twitter handles.

J: Excellent advice. Merci beaucoup. I will do that.

Mindy: Yes, do that. Okay, Jay, this was awesome. I learned a thousand things. I hope that our military listeners are also learning how they can, finagle is not the right word, finesse their military… Because when you think of military, you do not think of like lucrative salaries. You think of, wow, they do not make anything. You might not make a lot but you are also not paying for housing. You are not paying for food. You all get uniforms, right? You are not buying clothes, right? The seven pieces of clothing that you walk in with can last you forever because you are always in military clothes, right?

J: Absolutely, that is one thing I miss. just not having to decide what to wear in the morning. Vous

just get up, put on your uniform, and go.

Mindy: You could still wear uniform, go to the thrift store. You could find or if you kept yours.

J: Well, I do not quite fit in mine anymore, but…

Mindy: Yes, if you are in the military, what can you do? How can you use your situation? Take advantage of all these opportunities that you are getting to either pay down any debt you have or not generate any debt. Stuart Glazier was here, remember Scott? His first thing, like as soon as he got his, what was it, like a bonus or something? First like a sign on bonus or something. As soon as he got that, he went out and bought like a $30,000 truck. Not the best choice, not the worst choice. I mean it could have been a $50,000 truck but you do not do those things. Or if you did those things, sell the truck and pay off the debt. While you are in the military with basically no expenses, use that to start generating investments and buy a house and whatever works for you and your investment.

But this was unbelievable and thank you so much for coming on and sharing this. Now, I am thinking of all the things. My husband used to work for the VA and he would periodically travel with them and he would go to the grocery store to get his per diem because he just did not want to go out to dinner all the time. After you are done working, let us go back to the hotel and just relax. Yes, he took advantage of this, but he did not take advantage of it like you did. He did not have this a 100% no expenses thing either. Wow, that is just… You blew my mind, Jay. Thank you so much for coming on the show to blow my mind.

J: Thank you guys so much for having me. It has been an absolute blast. J'apprécie vraiment cela.

Mindy: Okay, have a great day, Gray.

J: You as well. Merci beaucoup.

Scott: Alright, that was Jay Grayson from FedonFire.com. Mindy, what did you think?

Mindy: Oh my God, that was fantastic. All of those things that he shared with his like geoarbitrage, the per diem hacking is blowing my mind. The what is it, short term, long term, temporary duty, whatever he has got, that is fantastic. The government is paying 100% of his living expenses. They pay for his property or his place to live. Now, you know what we did not ask him? It is the government giving him money for the per diem and also her money for the per diem because they are both government contractor or government employees.

I mean either way they are living on $25,000 a year and all they have to pay for his food. I mean the government pays for their transportation, the government pays for their housing, the government gives them money for food and then they can spend that however they want. He is saving 109% of his salary. How do you save 109% of your salary? That is ridiculous. He could also be spending 109% of his salary. This is just an amazing story. He went, what is this? In three years, he went from net worth of zero to net worth of I could technically retire now.

Scott: Oui. It is not easy to do that in the DC metro area either.

Mindy: No, it is impossible. That is a high cost of living area.

Scott: C'est vrai. Yes, there is a lot of impressive things here. I just love… There is four ways to increase your wealth, right? You spend less, you earn more, you invest aggressively or you create an asset through entrepreneurship, right? He took three of those buckets and just optimized them relentlessly, right? I mean, look at his income production skyrocket over the last four or five years. Look at how he is effectively cut out all of his expenses and he has planning out his next move in advance to keep those expenses extremely low and he has got a very aggressive asset allocation plan and plans to continue that even though he is going to expand into real estate with his house hack. I mean it is just fantastic and it is in all of those areas, all combining to drive his financial position forward and really showing a really incredible progress very quickly.

Mindy: I think he hits all four buckets because at one point he had started the company absolute. He is definitely knocking it out of the park with three of the buckets and then the fourth bucket, it did not worked out.

Scott: Oui absolument.

Mindy: But that is not… I think that was more like a product of what was happening in the country at the time and he did not really have a lot of control over that. But yes, absolutely love every single thing and he did not start out with some fabulous background.

Scott: Yes, By the way, with that fourth bucket for entrepreneurship, as a veteran, he is in perfect position to go and pursue that full time whenever he so chooses with a great advantage, right? He has got the passive income and the asset base here. He has got the healthcare covered, he has got all these advantages that are going to come into play if he ever does decide to go into the full time entrepreneurship side of things as well, which is listed as one of many potential possibilities going forward and the future.

Mindy: Yes and I brought up that whole self-storage thing. I do not know if that is technically real estate or owning your own business or both, but I would really like to own a self-storage unit simply because it prints money. When we first moved to our city, we had to put all of our stuff in storage because our house was not ready and yada yada and it was like $250 a month and we started talking to the guy. He is like, ‘Oh yes, I own four,’ within like this tiny little, I do not know, three or four block radius and they generate something like $300,000 a year and he has no employees and he just… If somebody calls up and they say, ‘Hey, do you have a storage unit?’ I do not have one at that place. But around the corner is another one and nobody cares where their storage unit is located because they will drive an extra half minute to get to the other place. They are just looking for a unit and he very rarely has vacancies and it just prints money.

Scott: The great thing about storage is that most people are not like… Most of your customers are not like Jay, right? Jay is actually using short term storage to actually store his stuff while he lives for free for a year. Then he is going to go collect his things and move down to Virginia, right? But most of your customers really in storage just put their stuff there and then stay there for years. I got to imagine, right? I am not going to make a promise but that that would be my guess. There was a guest on one of the BiggerPockets Real Estate podcast episodes who talked about this and he had a really creative approach to that.

If anyone’s interested, we will have to go in and find that show number and put it in the show notes. But basically the premise is he has one storage unit that is in a really good location that is very expensive and it is a loss leader. He has got like six or seven more that are in the outskirts and much cheaper locations. People go to the really prominent one and they are like, ‘Oh, we are all full here.’ But if you drive five minutes away or 10 minutes away, we have got six or seven more where you can go and store them there. It is kind of like that is how he generates business into his other storage rental places.

Mindy: That is awesome. I have not listened to that episode. Do you know who the guest was?

Scott: No, I will have to go and look it up. It was this couple of years ago.

Mindy: D'accord. Well, you can find that information in the show notes at BiggerPockets.com/moneyshow68. We will make sure to look up that episode and include that in there. Scott, is there anything else you want to add today?

Scott: No. I think I was just very inspired by Jay and his journey and I think he is going to be off to some… He has already done and accomplished some really big things. I assume he is going to have a lot of even bigger and better things coming up in his future.

Mindy: Yes, I am so blown away that he wants to start a non-profit for his niece. That is so touching. I hope that she and her parents really appreciate that because he could just do nothing and he is going to go and make the world a better place. I also have a cousin with some weird disorder and she has blown through her health insurance maximums and it is just what do you do? You still have to pay for health insurance. Okay, If you are listening to this show and you know somebody who would really benefit from this information, they are in the military, they are going into the military, they are just leaving the military, they are thinking about going to college, they are young, they are old, they are like pretty much anybody with a heartbeat. Please recommend that they listen to this show.

We are available everywhere podcasts are found and I just think the information in this episode was really, really mind blowing. You do not know what you do not know. When somebody presents an option to you and you are like I have never heard of that before, your first thought might be to be like, oh, whatever, that is garbage. But this guy is showing you you can do this. You do not have to have some fancy background. He did not, he had a less than ideal childhood. His parents filed for bankruptcy, they were farmers who had no money. His sister passed away at a very early age. All of these things really do not make you think like warm and fuzzy thoughts and he did not just sit there and let that define him. He kind of stood about it in high school for a while but then he righted his ship and he went to the military. He fixed himself. He is going to be financially independent.

I do not think we ever asked him how old he is. I think he is in his early thirties. Who retires in their early thirties? Personne. That does not happen. Except it does happen and he is an amazing example of what can be done when you put your mind to it. Please share this episode with anybody that you have in your life that you think could benefit from it. Okay, now from episode 68 of the BiggerPockets Money podcast, this is a Scott Trench and Mindy Jensen and we are out of here.