Comment négocier: tactiques d'expertise

Il s’agit du numéro de l’émission 321 du podcast BiggerPockets.

«marque: Trait de personnalité pour un bon négociateur, c’est l’empathie. C’est vraiment être capable de se mettre à la place de l’autre et de comprendre ce qu’elle pense, sa motivation, ses objectifs, ce dont elle a besoin, ce qu’elle veut, ce qu’elle ressent. Si vous pouvez le faire, vous pouvez être un bon négociateur. »

Vous écoutez une radio BiggerPockets. Simplifier l'immobilier pour les petits et grands investisseurs. Si vous êtes ici pour en savoir plus sur l'investissement immobilier sans tout le battage publicitaire, vous êtes au bon endroit. Restez à l'écoute et assurez-vous de rejoindre les millions d'autres personnes qui ont bénéficié de BiggerPockets.com, votre site d'investissements immobiliers en ligne.

Brandon: Qu'est-ce qui se passe tout le monde? Je m'appelle Brandon, animateur du podcast BiggerPockets. Ici avec vous aujourd'hui avec mon ami, mon co-partenaire. Est-ce un mot? Co-partenaire dans le crime.

David: Un autre mot que vous avez inventé.

Brandon: David Greene. David Greene, bienvenue au spectacle. Hoe tu fais mon pote?

David: Merci, Brandon. Je vais bien Je viens de faire une réunion hier dans la région de South Bay et j'ai obtenu quatre ou cinq acheteurs sous contrat. Beaucoup d’entre eux essaient d’abriter du piratage en ce moment. La vie est vraiment bonne pour moi, je ne me plains pas.

Brandon: Très sympa. Ce nouveau livre de BRRRR va bientôt paraître. Tout le monde va… je veux dire les gens sont… j'ai mis quelque chose sur mon compte Instagram l'autre jour, comme si j'avais reçu un premier brouillon de votre livre sur BRRR, comme si je tenais et que je n'avais jamais vu autant de gens paniquer un livre qui sort. Les gens vont aimer cette chose. Comme si c’était «j’attendais ce livre». De toute façon, il sortira bientôt. Vous en saurez plus à ce sujet.

David: Je pense que vous pouvez le pré-commander tout de suite, mais ça changera la donne, mec. La stratégie de BRRRR est puissante.

Brandon: C'est un truc puissant. Quoi qu’il en soit, mais aujourd’hui, nous discutons d’un sujet un peu différent de BRRRR-ing et d’un livre différent de celui de BRRRR. Nous parlons de négociation aujourd'hui avec trois investisseurs qui ne sont que des vedettes du rock et que je sais que vous connaissez probablement tous déjà, mais sinon, vous les rencontrerez tous dans un instant. Avant d’y arriver, voyons ce qu’il faut faire aujourd’hui.

David: Conseil rapide.

Brandon: Pour notre conseil rapide, nous souhaitons que vous soyez sur le podcast immobilier BiggerPockets. C’est vrai, nous voulons que vous soyez ici, parlez avec moi et David. Nous allons choisir quelques-uns d'entre vous pour un épisode dans quelques mois. Voici comment vous pouvez vous mettre dans la course pour cela. Accédez à votre profil BiggerPockets. Assurez-vous de vous connecter à votre compte, faites défiler jusqu'à l'endroit où il est indiqué investissements et partagez certaines offres que vous avez effectuées. Nous allons choisir quelques personnes qui ont fait cela et vous inviter ici pour en parler. Encore une fois, allez sur BiggerPockets.com, renseignez au moins une de vos propriétés d’investissement. Nous allons choisir quelques personnes et les amener sur le spectacle. Ça va être plutôt cool. Très bien, une dernière chose avant d’arriver au spectacle d’aujourd’hui avec nos trois invités.

Regardez, si vous êtes intéressé par l'immobilier, le crowdfunding est un nouveau type d'aventure super cool dans l'immobilier qui me passionne. Je veux que vous vérifiiez tous Sharestates. Le nom de l’entreprise raconte une histoire, non? Cela vous permet de partager des biens immobiliers. Voici comment cela fonctionne. Sharestates vous met en contact avec des promoteurs immobiliers soigneusement sélectionnés à travers le pays. Vous choisissez le marché dans lequel vous souhaitez investir. Comme si je parlais de terrains commerciaux unifamiliaux, multifamiliaux et polyvalents, voici la bonne chose.

Vous n'avez pas besoin d'être un multimillionnaire de fantaisie dans un costume trois pièces pour le faire. Vous pouvez commencer avec juste comme un 1000 $. Je ne sais pas pour vous, mais je ne veux pas que tout mon argent reste bloqué comme des actions et des obligations ou même juste mon propre bien immobilier. Avec les sharstates, les rendements se situent entre 8% et 12% en moyenne et, à ce jour, aucun de leurs investisseurs n’a encore perdu le principe sur ces transactions. Comme Sharestates, plus de 1,5 milliard d’euros de fonds immobiliers ont été financés à ce jour. Si vous êtes un promoteur immobilier et avez besoin d'un financement, Shareestates peut s'associer à vous pour votre prochain projet.

Pour en savoir plus, rendez-vous sur BiggerPockets.com/sharestates. C'est BiggerPockets.com/sharestates. D'accord, avec ça, nous devons arriver à l'émission d'aujourd'hui. Tout d’abord, merci à tous nos auditeurs. Vous êtes ce qui rend ce spectacle possible, vous basculez. Parlons maintenant de la négociation. Cette émission est l’une de celles qui vous aideront sûrement à faire plus que le coût d’assister à cette émission et je plaisante un peu parce qu’elle est libre de l’écouter, mais j’aime vraiment cette émission comme l’écoute rapprochée car il y a tellement de bonnes choses ici qui sont comme ici sont la façon d'économiser plus d'argent.

En fait, plus tard dans l’émission, l’un des invités dont j’ai parlé est qu’il est comme, s’il existe un pourboire qui m’a rapporté des centaines de milliers de dollars au cours de la dernière décennie, écoutez-le et il y a probablement 20 astuces différentes dans ce spectacle qui vont aider à améliorer votre entreprise. Sans plus de tapage, passons au spectacle avec J Scott, Carol Scott et Mark Ferguson. Bien. Bienvenue à tous dans le podcast BiggerPockets. Bienvenue J, Carol et Mark. Comment allez-vous tous les gars aujourd'hui?

Carol: Impressionnant. Merci beaucoup de nous recevoir. Belle journée.

J: Hey, comment va Brandon? Comment ça va, David?

Brandon: Quoi de neuf les gars?

David: Bonjour bonjour. Oui.

Marque: Génial d'être ici.

Brandon: D'accord d'accord. Aujourd'hui va être un peu déroutant. De toute évidence, beaucoup de gens parlent. Nous allons l'essayer, oh, je suppose. Ici, faites-moi une faveur pour que les gens puissent entendre ce que vous ressemblez. J, voudriez-vous simplement nous dire très vite qui vous êtes afin que les gens puissent en quelque sorte entendre votre voix, alors qu'aujourd'hui, ils savent que c'est vous qui parlez. Évidemment, Carol, eh bien, je sais qui est Carol. Mais je vais aller à J et ensuite à Mark et ensuite à Carol. J, pour ceux qui ne vous ont pas entendu dans l’émission les 700 dernières fois que vous avez été dans le podcast BiggerPockets, pouvez-vous nous dire qui vous êtes et ce que vous faites un peu?

J: Salut tout le monde. J Scott ici et je suis le mari de Carol Scott qui est avec nous aujourd'hui. Carol et moi avons démarré notre activité de retournement il y a environ 10 ans. Nous retournions des maisons depuis 10 ans. Nous faisons aussi des achats et des prêts, d'autres choses aléatoires. Mais je suis un fidèle partisan de BiggerPockets depuis 2008. Je pense avoir fait partie de l'équipe d'origine des membres BiggerPockets. Tellement ravi d'être de retour.

Brandon: Oui, vous étiez ici avant moi, il y a longtemps. Oui cool. Bien. Mark, et toi? Raconte-nous une brève biographie de qui tu es. Vous étiez sur notre spectacle. En passant, J, je ne me souviens pas de la série sur laquelle vous étiez, mais je sais que vous avez été sur un couple. Vous en souvenez-vous?

J: 10, 311 et l'un d'entre eux entre les deux.

Brandon: Bien. Ensuite, Mark, vous étiez en spectacle quoi? Le numéro 68 peut-être?

Marque: Oui, 68. Je pense. D'autres personnes peuvent écouter toute votre histoire, mais Mark, parlez-nous rapidement de vous-même pour ceux qui n'ont pas encore écouté cet épisode.

Marque: Oui. Je suis devenu agent en 2002. J'ai travaillé avec mon père pendant un certain temps. Il a retourné des maisons, apprendre de lui. Vraiment concentré sur les ventes REO et HUD pendant un certain temps, il s'est ensuite tourné davantage vers l'achat de biens locatifs que l'achat, et se concentre maintenant principalement sur le retournement. Nous en avons eu 26 l'an dernier et 26 ans auparavant et nous avons lancé mon propre courtage l'an dernier aussi, ce qui est un peu fou aussi.

David: Pas mal pas mal.

Brandon: Enfin, Carol. Carol n'a pas été sur la série avant mais Carol est génial. Carol, parlez-nous un peu de vous et de comment vous en êtes arrivé là.

Carol: Absolument. Après un million d'années passées dans la folie des entreprises en 2008, J et moi étions comme si ce n'était pas durable. Après avoir regardé beaucoup trop de chaînes HGTV, je suis comme si ces ding dongs pouvaient retourner une maison, nous pouvons certainement passer. Nous en avons acheté un qui en a conduit un à un, et un autre, et le meilleur dans tout cela est que je passe mes journées avec mes fous garçons de huit et neuf ans tout en générant des revenus pour la famille. C'est assez bon concert.

Brandon: Voilà. C'est génial. Eh bien, tous les trois, je les aime tous. C'est formidable de vous avoir dans la série d'un seul coup. Aujourd’hui, nous parlons plus particulièrement d’un certain sujet qui tient à cœur de tout investisseur immobilier et qui est la négociation. De toute évidence, vous trois avez écrit un livre ensemble sur la négociation, en particulier sur la négociation immobilière. Nous parlerons du livre un peu plus tard. Nous en avons parlé dans l'introduction, mais je voudrais d'abord aborder les bases des négociations afin que nous puissions peut-être commencer par des idées fausses ou des erreurs que les gens pourraient commettre. Je vous laisse décider qui veut y aller en premier. Mais qu'est-ce que vous pensez que les gens se trompent de négociation le plus souvent?

J: Il s’agit de J. À mon avis, le plus important, c’est que beaucoup de gens essaient de le compliquer exagérément. Je ne vais pas dire que la négociation, il n'y a pas beaucoup d'art et de science impliquée, mais une grande partie de la négociation implique les compétences que nous avons déjà toutes. Cela implique de tisser des liens et de pouvoir converser avec les gens. Cela implique de pouvoir effectuer de simples recherches et de… Honnêtement, si vous me demandiez quel est le plus gros trait de personnalité d'un bon négociateur, c'est de l'empathie. C’est vraiment être capable de se mettre à la place de l’autre et de comprendre ce qu’elle pense, sa motivation, ses objectifs, ce dont elle a besoin, ce qu’elle veut, ce qu’elle ressent. Si vous pouvez le faire, vous pouvez être un bon négociateur. Vous n'êtes pas obligé de vous fier aux astuces et conseils que nous entendons au sujet de la négociation pour donner l'impression que c'est vraiment compliqué. Certes, il y a une partie de celle-ci impliquée dans la négociation, mais 90% de la négociation est littéralement la compétence que nous avons tous déjà.

Brandon: C'est rassurant parce que, comme je le sais, je l'ai déjà dit dans l'émission lorsque nous avons parlé de négociation. J'aime juste, je n'aime pas ça, non? Je n'aime pas l'idée de devoir aller chercher quelqu'un en bas et en profiter, et c'est parce que c'est ce que je ressens avec la négociation. Comme si je gagne, ils doivent perdre. Est-ce vrai? Qu'en pensez-vous?

Carol: Je pense que c'est une idée fausse très commune, Brandon. Exactement ce dont vous parlez. Les gens se sentent mal à l'aise ou peu familiarisés avec la négociation. Alors au bout du compte, quelqu'un va gagner et quelqu'un va perdre. Mais en réalité, s’il s’agit d’une négociation fructueuse, vous avez l’impression que vous finissez tous les deux par avoir l’impression d’avoir gagné. Il s’agit vraiment de savoir si vous essayez de ne pas forcément gagner mais d’essayer de résoudre un problème afin que tout le monde soit heureux au final, vous aurez forcément plus de succès. Lorsque vous vous retrouvez dans un état d'esprit différent en ce qui concerne la négociation, il ne s'agit pas uniquement de calmer les esprits, il ne s'agit pas uniquement d'obtenir le meilleur prix. Il s’agit de déterminer les facteurs de motivation des personnes et de travailler avec elles. Si vous pouvez en quelque sorte l'aborder avec un état d'esprit différent, à savoir qu'il y a tellement plus que cela, cela devient de plus en plus naturel avec le temps.

Brandon: Bon, ça a du sens.

J: C'est comme escalader une montagne. Je veux dire que vous escaladez une montagne avec quelqu'un d'autre et que le but n'est pas de gagner et que vous atteignez le sommet. S'ils tombent, on s'en fiche. Le but est de s’entraider pour atteindre le sommet de cette montagne et si vous pouvez le faire, peu importe qui y est arrivé le premier. Peu importe qui y est arrivé le plus rapidement. Vous pouvez tous les deux vous rendre au sommet de la montagne, vous pouvez gagner si vous vous entraidez.

Brandon: Oui c'est génial. Très bien, permettez-moi de cadrer un peu cette discussion pour savoir à qui elle est destinée. Je veux dire, parlons-nous aujourd'hui de négociations, est-ce que c'est pour les gens qui font beaucoup de transactions immobilières? Les gens devraient-ils toujours écouter ce spectacle et lire votre livre? Si c'est le cas, j'essaie d'acheter ma toute première affaire. Peut-être que je vous jetterai celui-là, Mark, vous n'avez pas encore répondu à l'une de ces questions. Pour qui la négociation était-elle vraiment idéale?

Marque: C’est pour tout le monde parce que je pense qu’en écho à ce que J a dit, il ne s’agit pas de gagner une bataille ou une négociation pour obtenir quelques milliers de dollars de plus, mais bien de créer une entreprise. Lorsque nous faisons autant de tournois ou que nous achetons des immeubles locatifs, je suis un agent, je suis un courtier, je suis dans la communauté tout le temps. Les gens savent qui je suis et si j'ai la réputation d'être quelqu'un qui va frapper les gens tout le temps, ils ne veulent pas travailler avec moi. Cela commence à partir de votre première transaction, de vos deux premières transactions. Les gens commencent à se rendre compte de qui vous êtes si vous faites beaucoup de transactions. Vous voulez commencer à bâtir une bonne réputation dès le début et cela ne signifie pas que vous ne pouvez pas négocier, vous ne pouvez pas aller et venir, mais vous voulez également agir de bonne foi.

Une des meilleures tactiques de négociation qui m’ait aidée consiste à faciliter au maximum la tâche de quelqu'un d’autre. Je veux dire que d’autres agents d’autres bureaux me proposent des marchés, car je sais que nous allons fermer, nous n’avons aucune inspection et ils n’ont même pas à inscrire le logement à la liste. Nous pouvons simplement le faire immédiatement et c’est la meilleure offre au monde. Nous n'avons pas à dépenser un centime en marketing, quelqu'un vient à vous. Il s'agit de faciliter les choses, de traiter les gens correctement, et de gagner la guerre entière, pas seulement une bataille, mais de bâtir l'avenir et de simplement recevoir des informations.

David: Oui.

J: Brandon, vous avez un enfant de deux ans.

Brandon: Je fais.

J: Si vous ne pensez pas que la négociation est importante, vous lui accordez quelques années et vous allez réaliser à quel point il est important de pouvoir négocier.

Carol: Chaque seconde de chaque jour.

Brandon: C'est marrant, c'est marrant. Eh bien, dans quelle mesure la négociation dans l’immobilier est-elle similaire à la négociation dans d’autres domaines? Peut-être que je vais jeter ça ça. Je veux dire, par exemple, si vous apprenez simplement à négocier en général, cela signifie-t-il que vous serez toujours mieux en négociation ou était-ce spécifique? Ce sont des choses de négociation spécifiques à l'immobilier que nous devrions apprendre?

Carol: Je pense que c'est vraiment double, Brandon. Je pense qu'il y a tellement de compétences spécifiques en négociation en général qui sont applicables à tous les niveaux. Par exemple, l’un de mes préférés, croyez-le ou non, c’est apprendre à rester assis et à écouter sans parler. Vraiment, vraiment fort, tout le monde aime combler le silence. Vous voyez, c'est vraiment difficile à écouter, non? Le silence n'est pas une chose confortable.

Brandon: Oui.

Carol: Mais c’est une compétence de négociation, peu importe si vous négociez de l’immobilier, si vous essayez de négocier un meilleur prix chez Home Depot, si vous essayez de négocier avec votre enfant pour qu’il nettoie sa chambre. Quoi que ce soit, si vous restez assis et attendez, cela n’est en général qu’une excellente tactique de négociation. Cela dit, pour l'immobilier, il y a tellement de nuances car il s'agit d'un processus tellement long, n'est-ce pas? Comme Mark l’a dit, vous n’êtes pas juste, vous n’êtes pas simplement tenté de faire cette affaire.

Vous essayez d’en faire beaucoup et d’en tirer parti. Cependant, vous êtes également conscient de la nature d’une transaction immobilière, de son prix, du fait qu’une transaction ne se ferme pas, ce n’est pas la même chose que de négocier la couleur de la peinture que nous mettons sur le mur, c’est une solution économique. décision minute. En raison de la nature du processus, cela peut prendre 30 jours, 60 jours, 90 jours ou deux ans pour obtenir l'une de ces offres. Certaines nuances sont très particulières à la négociation immobilière.

Brandon: Bien.

David: Une chose que j’ai constatée lors de la négociation pour le compte de mes clients en tant qu’agent immobilier et des transactions que j’essaie d’acheter, c’est que nous avons toujours tendance à penser de manière logique, non? Comme si j'avais le pouvoir de cette façon. Comment puis-je forcer l'autre côté à reconnaître où est ma force? Mais j'ai constaté que le succès vient souvent de choses illogiques. Les émotions de l’autre côté ont souvent influencé leurs décisions bien plus que les faits que nous examinons. Pouvez-vous parler un peu des techniques que vous avez trouvées et qui permettent à l’autre partie de vous donner plus facilement ce que vous voulez?

Marque: C’est bizarre, mais le simple fait d’être gentil avec les autres fait toute la différence et peut être utilisé dans tous les aspects de la vie de tous les jours. Soyez poli, courtois, répondez aux gens quand ils vous demandent de répondre, et répondez même aux gens comment ils veulent que vous répondiez. C'est comme si quelqu'un m'envoyait un courriel et me disait: "S'il te plaît, écris-moi." Je ne vais pas appeler, je vais envoyer un courriel. Si quelqu'un veut que je les appelle, je vais les appeler. Parce que cela rend les gens plus à l'aise, heureux avec vous et ne les ennuie pas. Partir du bon pied et être poli, courtois, cela ne veut pas dire que vous devez tout abandonner, mais il est si important de nouer des rapports, comme J l’a dit plus tôt, et cela joue dans vos émotions. L'achat d'une maison est tellement émouvant pour les gens et la vente d'une maison est folle.

Les gens vont faire des choses illogiques à cause de leurs émotions montent de droit parce que, comme je n'aime pas ces gars-là, je ne ferai rien pour eux lors de l'inspection ou si quelqu'un arrive avec une petite offre. Comme je ne vais même pas les contrer. Juste rien parce que je suis énervé. Essayer simplement d’être gentil et d’établir ce rapport aide vraiment à obtenir la négociation et à commencer plus tôt. Et une chose que je fais toujours aussi, si je viens avec une offre basse: je vais envoyer un courriel ou appeler d'abord cet agent et être comme, hé, attention, nous apportons une offre. Ça va être bas. Je ne veux pas vous surprendre. Soyez prêt et cela aide tellement à bien commencer le processus.

Brandon: C'est un bon conseil.

J: Il y a une histoire que Carol et moi avons vécue. Dans le livre que vous avez mentionné, nous essayons de mettre autant d'histoires réelles que possible dans le livre, mais Carol et moi en avons fait l'expérience qui était liée à cela, probablement en 2010 ou 2011. C'était un dimanche matin, nous avons un téléphone. appel de notre avocat de clôture qui était un de nos amis. Il se promenait dans son quartier. Il est allé à une vente de garage et il parlait au propriétaire de la maison ou à la personne qui lançait la vente de garage et il s'est avéré qu'il s'agissait d'une femme dont la mère venait de décéder. C'était une vente de succession.

Elle vidait la maison et il a dit: "Envisagez-vous de vendre la maison?" Elle a dit: "Eh bien, je ne sais pas ce que je vais en faire, mais je pourrais envisager de le faire si vous connaissez quelqu'un." Il nous a appelé. En fait, Carol et moi-même sommes allés environ une demi-heure en voiture la voir pour voir si un accord était potentiellement conclu. Comme d'habitude, Carol a tout parlé. Elle est beaucoup plus humaine que moi. Elle a probablement parlé à la femme, vous pouvez entrer dans Carol si je me trompe.

Carol: Oui.

J: Elle a parlé à la femme pendant probablement une heure, en gros, juste lui parler de sa mère, de sa maison, juste empathie et était là-bas et comme si elle venait de nouer une petite amitié. Elle, à un moment donné, j’imaginais qu’elle me demandait de vendre la maison. Je crois que la femme a dit quelque chose du genre je ne suis tout simplement pas prêt à le vendre, je dois le comprendre. Carol est comme, pas de problème. Ils ont parlé pendant un moment. À la fin de la journée, Carol a reçu son adresse et son nom.

Carol: En fait, je vais intervenir. Vous savez quoi? Je ne l'ai même pas fait fermer mais je ne l'ai même pas fait aussi formel. Comme vous l'avez dit, nous avons bavardé pour toujours. Je pense à la toute fin alors que nous sortions. Je lui ai demandé si elle allait vendre la maison et elle ne savait simplement pas. Super, voici ma carte si tu la veux. Ensuite, j'ai décidé que quelques mois plus tard, c'était Noël, non? Je pensais que le courrier qui allait toujours à sa mère était probablement envoyé à sa maison. Je l'ai fait, je n'étais même pas direct. J'étais juste très très subtile à propos de tout ça. Je viens de lui envoyer une carte de Noël par l’adresse de la mère. C'est juste triste de penser à vous pendant les vacances, ça doit être vraiment difficile.

J'imagine qu'il est difficile de célébrer ce premier Noël sans que ta mère te souhaite tout le meilleur. Avance rapide, trois ou quatre mois plus tard, elle décroche le téléphone et «je réfléchis. Je pense qu'il est temps de vendre ma maison. Voulez-vous l’acheter? ’C’était juste pour établir cette relation à long terme et ne pas aller vraiment dans le hardcore. Je veux acheter votre maison, c’est une bonne affaire, faisons en sorte que cela se produise. Encore une fois, il s’agissait vraiment de faire preuve d’empathie et de vraiment vraiment comprendre ce que sont ces émotions et ce qu’est cette personne.

Brandon: Oui, c'est vraiment bien. Passons un peu en arrière et parlons de certaines tactiques spécifiques que les mesures immobilières peuvent faire. Je sais que nous en avons déjà parlé, je veux aller un peu plus loin. Disons simplement que quelqu'un ici fait du marketing pour des affaires, non? Ils envoient peut-être du marketing DirectMail ou ils ont peut-être un site Web, ils mettent des panneaux, peu importe. Ils font pour que le téléphone sonne. Maintenant, le téléphone sonne. Ils reçoivent l'appel téléphonique. Comme si je supposais que vous diriez que la négociation commence vraiment là-bas, non? C'est la construction de relations, l'empathie. Mais quelles sont certaines des choses que nos auditeurs peuvent faire dès le premier appel téléphonique ou essayer d’aider les chances que l’accord soit conclu plus tard et qu’il fonctionne?

J: Oui. Je dirais que la première chose à faire est que c’est très naturel pour nous, en tant qu’investisseurs et en parlant à des personnes que nous ne connaissons pas, de traiter l’ensemble de la transaction de manière très transactionnelle. Oui, j'ai quelques questions pour vous, dites-moi quelle est la superficie en pieds carrés de la maison? En quelle année a-t-il été construit? Combien de chambres? Combien de travail a-t-il besoin? Mais au lieu de cela, pensez-y du point de vue de quelqu'un qui a pris le téléphone pour vous appeler parce que vraisemblablement, ils ont un problème, ils sont dans une situation? Ils se mettent là-bas. Il est difficile d'appeler quelqu'un et de lui dire: «Je dois vendre ma maison." S'ils ne voulaient pas vendre leur maison mais voulaient le vendre, ils seraient probablement allés voir un agent immobilier ou ont énuméré eux-mêmes. Mais ils se trouvent dans une situation où ils se sentent comme si cette lettre au hasard méritait de prendre le téléphone pour appeler et parler à un inconnu à l’autre ligne et leur dire en gros: «Je dois vendre ma maison».

Si vous abordez la question sous cet angle, quelqu'un a un problème et il vous contacte pour le résoudre. Encore une fois, cela revient à la question de l'empathie. Mettez-vous à leur place. De quoi voudriez-vous que quelqu'un vous parle? Souhaitez-vous qu'ils se contentent de poser toute une série de questions sur votre maison et la traitent comme une transaction commerciale ou voudriez-vous qu'ils essaient de vous comprendre, quels sont vos besoins, quelle est votre situation et quand vous vous en approchez à partir de cette position, il est très facile de commencer par «Hey, parlez-moi de ce qui se passe? Pourquoi avez-vous besoin de vendre votre maison? »Oh, mon mari a trouvé un emploi dans une nouvelle ville et nous devons déménager dans deux semaines. Oh c'est super. Que fait-votre mari? Oh, vous avez des enfants, nous avons des enfants. Par exemple, où vos enfants vont-ils à l'école et construisent-ils cette relation?

Puis, au moment où vous vous posez des questions sur, eh bien, en quelle année votre maison a-t-elle été construite et combien en voulez-vous? À ce stade, vous avez créé un climat de confiance, vous avez établi des relations et il leur est beaucoup plus facile de vous donner cette information, car ils ne répondent plus seulement aux questions posées par des inconnus et vous ne l’avez pas appelé. dis que j'ai un sondage que je veux que vous preniez. Maintenant, vous discutez avec quelqu'un avec qui vous êtes au tout début d'une relation. Traiter ce premier appel plutôt comme une discussion. Traiter chaque conversation comme une discussion par opposition à un questionnaire est vraiment, vraiment important.

Brandon: C'est vraiment bon. En fait, je… Il y a quelques années, je négociais cet accord. J'ai fini par le vendre en gros. Je suppose que je viens de donner la fin de l'histoire. Quoi qu'il en soit, j'ai eu cet accord. Je suis assis ici avec cette femme chez elle et je lui parle de la propriété. Eh bien, je lui parle, non? Mais avant de parler de la propriété, j'ai demandé ce qui se passait. Pourquoi essayez-vous de vendre? Oui, j'ai découvert qu'environ deux semaines, son mari, je pense, était parti pour aller en Californie et obtenir un nouvel emploi. Elle était là chargée de vendre la maison. Son mari lui manque.

Je suis vraiment dans cette histoire de pourquoi elle voulait aller en Californie si mal et toute notre famille était là-bas, il y a toujours une raison. La maison était embarrassante et en mauvais état. Plus je lui parle, plus je me rends compte qu'elle était vraiment gênée de voir des gens venir la regarder. C'était déjà assez difficile de me voir et de regarder. Elle était en extase lorsque j'ai fini par acheter sa maison et que je me suis procuré un bon prix et que j'ai gagné un bon salaire. Tout cela parce que, comme si elle avait une autre raison de vendre cela, je viens de le comprendre dès la première conversation.

J: Oui. Si vous pouvez déterminer quelles sont ces autres raisons, vous avez également l'avantage de vous donner un plus grand pouvoir de négociation. Cela vous donne d'autres choses que vous pouvez négocier à nouveau. J'ai parlé d'une situation où nous avons eu quelqu'un avec qui nous avons parlé pendant un moment. Nous nous sommes rendu compte que son plus grand souci était de vouloir traverser la ville et il se sentait obligé de faire ses bagages. Il ne savait pas comment appeler les déménageurs. Comme si, littéralement, il n'avait pas déménagé depuis peut-être 40 ou 50 ans, je l'ignore. Mais il semblait vraiment préoccupé par la façon dont je pouvais obtenir toutes mes affaires ici où je devais les obtenir et avec nous, il était assez facile de dire, hé, nous avons des entreprises de déménagement avec lesquelles nous travaillons et nous pouvons s'occupe de ça pour toi.

Nous allons payer pour cela, nous allons envoyer quelqu'un pour vous parler, regarder vos affaires, nous nous en occuperons. Tout ce que vous avez à faire, c'est d'être là et ils vont emballer. Ils le déposeront sur le camion, ils déménageront à l'autre endroit, ils l'enlèveront du camion. Pour beaucoup d'entre nous, c'est évident. Vous appelez les déménageurs et vous le faites. Il ne s’était pas rendu compte que c’était aussi simple que cela et lorsque nous lui avons proposé de l’aider à faire cela, nous lui avons proposé de le payer, de sorte qu’il n’a même pas à s’inquiéter pour cela. Cela va me coûter 500 $ ou 50 000 $. C'était juste une énorme chose de son assiette. À ce stade, il n’est plus préoccupé par cette situation et nous pouvons maintenant entamer le vrai débat sur la négociation du prix de la maison et de tout le reste.

Brandon: Je trouve que dans tant de domaines de la vie, et je sais que je monopolise toutes ces questions, David, je vais vous laisser intervenir dans une seconde. Mais comme tant de gens veulent juste qu'on leur dise quoi faire, clairement et facilement. Parce que les choses semblent écrasantes quand elles ne sont pas clarifiées, non? Je veux dire des exemples concrets, cette conférence de la semaine dernière. La meilleure conférence jamais organisée à Denver et il y a eu une nuit où nous étions comme si dix d'entre nous avaient en quelque sorte parlé de dîner ce soir-là, mais personne ne savait vraiment ce que nous allions faire. Ensuite, mon amie Tara Yarber, vous connaissez Tara, n'est-ce pas? Comme Tara entre et comme les gars, j'ai fait des réservations. Il y a des places pour 11 à cet endroit.

Voici les 11 personnes qui viennent ou qui partent à cette heure, allez. J'étais comme, merci, comme si quelqu'un prenait le contrôle et qu'il ne se rencontrerait pas… Je veux dire, je sais que ce n'était pas une affaire financière, mais que j'aime parfois dans la vie, les gens veulent juste qu'on leur dise quoi faire, où se présenter, comment être là. Lorsque vous pouvez être cette personne en tant qu’investisseur immobilier, ici, nous allons nous occuper de tout cela pour vous, ne vous inquiétez pas. Comme si c'est si précieux.

J: Il existe de nombreuses études qui montrent que si une personne a trop de choix, il lui est beaucoup plus difficile de faire un choix. Si vous entrez dans le supermarché et qu'il y a une marque de gruau sur le plateau, vous choisissez cette marque de gruau. Il y a 30 marques de gruau sur les tablettes. Si vous cherchez 20 minutes et que vous vous en allez frustrés, vous ne connaissez pas les avantages et les inconvénients de chacun. Il en va de même pour tout type de négociation. Si vous laissez trop de choix à quelqu'un, si vous lui laissez le soin de prendre trop de décisions, cela deviendra écrasant.

Souvent, une des idées reçues et la négociation donnent trois offres. Faites une offre en espèces, une offre de financement, donnez-leur une offre quelconque et laissez-les décider quelle offre leur convient le mieux. C’est bien, mais le présenter comme je vais vous faire trois offres n’est peut-être pas la meilleure façon de le faire car cela ne fait qu’ajouter davantage à leur assiette. La seule façon de faire cela, c'est de ne pas accabler quelqu'un de décisions ou de choix à faire, mais en même temps de lui laisser des choix et des décisions.

Brandon: Oui, j'adore l'offre multiple. Je pense avoir utilisé cela avec succès à plusieurs reprises.

David: Cela parle à la psychologie humaine parce que, comme Brandon l'a dit, nous voulons que quelqu'un nous dise quoi faire. Mais comme l'a dit Jay, nous ne voulons pas être rassasiés, ils nous forcent à faire quelque chose que nous ne voulons pas faire, non? Comme un bon négociateur vous donne envie de faire ce qu’ils veulent. C’était une des choses que je voulais vous demander les gars. Évidemment, si vous allez là-bas et essayez d'armer quelqu'un, il vous repoussera, pas vrai? C'est pourquoi il est bon de nouer des relations au début, car ils ne savent pas qu'ils sont en négociation lorsque vous avez noué des relations. Ils vous aiment, ils veulent vous aider, tout comme vous essayez de les aider. Pouvez-vous nous donner quelques conseils tirés du livre sur ce que vous faites pour gagner une autre personne à vos côtés tout en maintenant la position que vous avez, vous devez obtenir cette propriété pour un certain nombre?

Marque: Oui. Cela revient à ce que j'allais mentionner aussi. Pour revenir à la première fois que vous avez parlé à quelqu'un, je suis un agent et un courtier. La première chose que je dois faire est de divulguer cela. For people who are brokers, it is very important that you say, ‘Hey, I am an agent.’ Some people do not want to be agents and investors because they say they have a disadvantage. By disclosing that, I think it helps me. When I say, hey, I am a broker. I give a short presentation or I have been an agent for 17 years. I have been in this community for 17 years. We bought 30 houses last year. I am not going to list your house or sell it, but I am a buyer. That immediately builds trust from somebody who might be very skeptical about calling this number who they have no idea who this person is.

By giving that short little presentation about myself and telling them who I am and building that trust, that kind of starts off the whole conversation as, ‘Hey, I am not trying to steal this house from you. I am not some weird guy off the street who has never done a deal. That I think helps you get on the right foot about I know what I am doing, I know values. At the same time, I am very honest too that hey, this is my business. I will be honest and say I might buy as a rental, I might want to flip it, I have to make money doing this and I hope you understand that. It works for some people, it does not work for everybody though.

J: Oui.

Brandon: Oui.

J: Really knowing what is important to the other side, what they need, what they do not need. Asking if you can figure out a tactful way and there are tactful ways, especially once you have built the relationship a little bit, there a tactful ways of asking what are you going to do with this money? If the answer is I am going to buy another house, I am trading up to a bigger house while they are probably going to need all the money. If the answer is my daughter has a wedding coming up in June, well then the conversation comes to, oh yes, we had a wedding, they are so expensive. We spent $25,000, how much are you planning to spend on yours? Oh yes, our budget is 35,000. D'accord! Super. They just told you they would be $35,000 in cash. If the pay out on…

Carol: J had mind tricks involved.

Mark: Yes, yes.

J: If they say to you, ‘I do not know, I do not really need the cash. I just need to be out of this business.’ Well, okay, in that case, how about if we do seller financing and you are making, oh this is a rental property for you and you are making $500 bucks a month off in this property. I make you a deal, I will give you $500 bucks a month for the next 20 years. You will make the same amount of money you were making but you do not have to manage this property. In 20 years, it is paid off and they are like, great, I am making the same amount of money and I do not have to do any work and now you are getting an interest free loan. There are a lot of things. Once you know what their motivation is and what they need and what they want and what they are going to do with the money, it gives you a lot of options on how you can structure a deal that can benefit you and them.

This goes to David’s question of like without strong arming them, you figure out what their motivations are and you appeal to those motivations, to those needs. You solve those problems and at the same time, hopefully there is something that they need that you are willing to give and then you get what you need and hopefully they are willing to give on that. Obviously, at both sides, both sides only care about price, if it boils down to you want the lowest price and they want the best price for their house then you are probably having a negotiation that is not going to work out. That happens a lot, let us be honest. 80% or 90%, I am making up numbers, but a large percentage of real estate negotiations are never going to work out because both sides care more about price than anything else. But it is that other 10% or 20% where being a good negotiator and listening to the other side and figuring out what they need, it is that other 10% or 20% were being… Doing that is really going to make a difference and that is going to be where you make call your money.

Brandon: Hey, it is Brandon. I want to take a get a quick break from this podcast to invite you to this week’s Webinar on BiggerPockets. This week, we are doing on of my favorite webinars of the year called the 90 Day Challenge. How to buy your first or next property in the next 90 days? Because look, we do this occasionally a few times a year where we really help you set down some time to make some big goals and then make a plan to achieve them. To help you prepare, we are hosting this special free online workshop to dominate the next 90 days. I am going to walk you through the process of creating a actual goal that you are going to work towards and then we are going to walk through how to create a daily and weekly plan of action to help you actually achieve those goals.

In the webinar, you are going to discover why now is such a good time to buy real estate but only if you are savvy, we will talk about that. We will talk about how to learn to begin generating leads on autopilot. How do you get leads coming into your inbox automatically? Then we will talk about how to create a personalized step by step checklist towards the hitting your goals. Like follow this and you are going to achieve your goals and a whole lot more. Space is limited in this so do not miss it. Sign up today by going to BiggerPockets.com/90daywebinar and I will see you there.

David: Carol, I was going to ask you Carol I have always found that I have the hardest time negotiating against women because men tend to be, just overall, not every man of course, we tend to be a little more analytical and just like purpose driven, like what are the facts, what do I want? Whereas women always kind of have a way of making you like them or empathizing with you or making you feel like they are on their side. Maybe they are, but it is just so much harder to stand your ground against like a really kind sweet woman. Can you share like some of the strategies that you have used that maybe guys just overlook? We do not put as much importance on when it comes to what Jay was mentioning earlier, getting somebody to see it from your side or looking at things other than price that they might care about?

Carol: For sure, for sure. Again, I know if brought this up over and over and over and it is about listening and seeing what really motivates them, but I do not know how to put it into a solid tip. But at the end of the day is a woman and it is interesting you bring this up because I think about this a lot when I am negotiating with men because let us be real. Let us just be completely honest. In real estate investing, it is primarily men. Right there are very few. Fortunately, I have adapted to that over the years and in my old life when I do corporate stuff is same type of thing. But one thing I realized, and not all men are this way, is that at the end of the day, to feel successful, men need to think that the end solution was your idea. It is my job as a woman to sit back and listen to what is important to you. If you spit out some numbers, you want some information about some numbers, I am going to give you some information about those numbers.

Also, have you thought about this in relation to that? Going through that dialogue over and over, I will subtly suggest little things to add on to the deal, to sweeten the pot. Not most of the time but at the end of the day I cannot tell you how many times the person on the other end of the phone is like I think I have come to the best conclusion. It was all the stuff by them planting in the brain for the past seven weeks. But that is okay, at the end of the day it works. Obviously I think you all know that I do not mean that in a rude way at by any stretch of the imagination. It is just women are the same way. Trust me, we want to think that everything was our idea and we are going to tell you it was not our idea whether it was or not. I would say keep that in mind. It is just find ways to really honor that other person on the other end of the phone, no matter what gender they are and realize that everybody likes to feel that they have good thoughts and ideas to bring to the table.

Brandon: That is really good. That is a really good tip. Just people want to make… They want to believe that was their idea.

Carol: 100%. Everybody wants to feel smart.

Brandon: Oui, exactement.

Carol: It is that simple.

Brandon: That they came out ahead.

Carol: Valuable.

Brandon: We have talked about this before on different negotiation shows we have done. We are talking about like at the end of the day a lot of people just want to be able to go later and tell their spouse or their family or whatever that they won the negotiation, that they got what they wanted, right? That is why like… I was negotiating a mobile home park last year and the seller listens to our show actually. Ed, what is up? Like he really wanted a certain price. Like that was the number he wanted and so we gave him the number he wanted and so he won that. But I mean like he also wanted passive income for life. What do we do? Seller financing, right?

I got what I want, I got my deal and he got what he wanted. It was kind of his idea, but it was kind of my idea, both of us probably felt like we won and it was our idea. That is really powerful. What about… Let us shift slightly away for a minute from the buying, the selling the deals. Let us talk about contractor negotiations, right? Because a lot of us who flip houses, do rehabs, that is one of things I hate almost more than more than the real estate negotiations. I am actually a decent at real estate negotiation. But when it comes to a contractor who asked him how much it is going to be and he says $30,000, I am usually like, okay. Like I do not know where to go from there because I need him, I need him to do work in my house. Maybe I will start with Mark and then we will go around to whoever else has ideas. But like what do you do to get your contractor to negotiate with the contractor? Whether it is someone you have been working with forever or somebody brand new.

David: Other than give the phone to David and let David do the negotiating for you.

Brandon: Yes, I have done that.

Mark: Oh, this is a horrible question, Brandon. I am dealing with this all the time. One easy solution which most people cannot do is I hired contractor as full time employees and then I do not have to worry about it. But for other guys, I have had this come up right now recently where he keeps coming in high on everything and I am just like I cannot pay you that much. We have sat down with him a few times and shown him the other deals he did and be like, ‘We did not make hardly any money on this deal because we paid you so much.

He kind of realized, like he did not even realize how much he was making because extras are being charged on other stuff and we went through all the numbers with him because I think a lot of contractors see the spread like oh you bought that house for $100,000 and you sold it for $180. You just made like $60,000. I am like well no we had all these other costs, carrying cost, financing costs, selling costs and they do not understand that we are not making like millions of dollars every year coming in.

Just being honest with them and showing them that and then I have to play the card of hey I can hire somebody else cheaper to do this. I can bring in subs who can do this paint for $2,000 where you are charging for. I can bring a dry waller in to do this. I can bring other guys in that can do this cheaper than you. You have to come down in price or we cannot use you. We have done that a number of times and sometimes they leave and it sucks and we have to find new people but it does not make sense to keep using somebody if you are not making any money.

Other times, they realize it, we negotiate. Sometimes we meet in the middle but you really have to be on them every single job and just letting them know that you are paying attention to the numbers in really keeping track of what they are bidding and they cannot just wildly bid whatever they want also helps as well. We have had guys just coming in at double what they should be just thinking, ‘Oh, he is not going to care.’ Every deal you really have to lock in with them, show him what is going on and be up front with them.

Brandon: J or Carol, anything you want to add to that?

Carol: We are actually dealing with some right downstairs right now. I hear it down there. I am so thrilled, it is awesome. I have some contractors downstairs and we had an interesting situation come up. We had, just last week, we are looking at a bunch of stuff to do at the house and they came in with a number and it was about double what we wanted to pay and I just kind of looked at him and he just kind of looked at me and I just kept kind of looking at him and he just kind of kept looking at me. Then finally it is like, and then next thing you know he comes down a little bit, right? He slashes this price about 15% and then I just kind of looked at him and then I just waited and I finally said, I was like I will break the silence.

I am like, realistically, this is what I need done. This is how much money I have to spend on it, can you do it or can you not do it? He is like I cannot do it for that. I am like, okay, fair enough. What can you do for that number? He went through my laundry list of all the stuff I had. Jotted down on my pink post it note that had like a million little line items and he said, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this, I cannot do this, this, this, this and this. Then, at the end of the day, of course we started adding. Well, we could do this, but we will also do the doors or something. I guess the tip that you can glean from that is with when your contractor comes in high, say this is the realistic note.

First of all, silence and wait for them to come off of their original price. Second is tell them the realistic budget you are willing to spend and see what they are able to do for that number and you will be surprised at the end of the day, we have had so many situations where a contractor would much rather just figure out a way to get that work done rather than risk losing your business to somebody else.

J: Oui. I mean we started this whole discussion with when you are talking to a homeowner, do not make it transactional because there is a lot of emotion involved in selling a house and all that. But when you are talking to contractor, it is transactional and there is no emotion involved or there should not be any emotion involved. When you are dealing with a contractor, you are taking kind of a different tact instead of going after, ‘Hey, tell me what you need, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.’ A contractor, most business people, they are going to have no problem actually talking about the numbers. Instead of saying, hey, okay, $40,000 for this scope of work. Let us see a breakdown in the line items. Exactly what Carol said, start breaking down the numbers a little bit more closely, see what numbers you can agree on.

You cannot agree on negotiate things individually as opposed to as a big group. Too often we look at it negotiation as all or nothing. We look at it, okay, you are going to do my scope of work for $35,000 or you are not going to do it, or you are going to do it for $30,000 or you are not going to do it. But instead, hey, you guys have a good breakdown of the price for me. I can look at it. Your plumbing prices are great so let us do the plumbing and your drywall prices are great. Let us do the drywall. Okay, electrical, you are a little bit high. Let us talk about negotiating the electrical here and before you know it, you have got the… The scope of the work could be the same, but you have gotten the price down to something that is reasonable. Do not be scared to break things down into line items and get very transactional about it.

Brandon: Yes, that is fantastic. Anything else you guys want to add before I move on?

J: Oui. I mean just the other thing to point out is if we were having this conversation 10 years ago, it would have been a very different conversation. 10 years ago, contractors were really easy to deal with. After the recession from 2008 most contractors went out of business and those that were still in business after 2008 when the good ones, they were good at dealing with cash flow and they were good at doing the business stuff, they are good at customer service. They showed up on time, they did quality work. The ones that could not do that went out of business after 2008 but the ones that were left were good and dealing with contractors… I mean I wrote in my first flipping book, the first edition of my flipping book, that the easiest part of flipping houses is dealing with contractors.

Basically, you incentivize them by offering them more work and treating them well and as long as they are getting more work, they are going to keep coming back over and over and over again. Five years later, I wrote the second edition to my flipping book and it went from this is the easiest part of the job to contractors are literally the most difficult part of the job.

Brandon: Oui. Just something to keep in mind that times change and it very much boils down to when it comes to contractors how much leverage you have. When it is a buyer’s market and contractors are desperate for business. You got a lot more leverage, you can get a lot more concessions. These days, it is a seller’s market. Contractors can make, frankly, they can make more money working with homeowners than they can working with investors for less headaches. These days, you just need to be reasonable and as investors we give in a lot more than we probably want to when it comes to contractors but that is the way it is until the next recession.

Brandon: Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Alright, I want to shift down. In a second, I am going to ask you all, if you want to start preparing in your heads, like what your all-time favorite or current favorite negotiation tactic is and then if you can back it up with a story, even better. But before I get there, I want to just mention the book real quick as we talked about a number of times. Just want to say what it is so if people are interested in picking it up, they should. It is called The Book on Negotiating Real Estate: Expert Strategies for Getting The Best Deals When Buying and Selling Investment Properties. It is out today over on BiggerPockets and we would love of all of our listeners went over there right now and picked it up. Just go to BiggerPockets.com/negotiatingbook, negotiating book.

If you do not know how to spell negotiating, Google it. You might as well order like the ultimate package there. I think it is like $50 or something like that but you get the physical copy shipped to your house, the audio book version, the Ebook version and a bunch of bonus material including a few videos where I actually drill down on some of these concepts with J and Carol. That was actually really really fun to work on. Anyway, it is all there and there is access to a Q&A Webinar with all three of our authors and more. Oh, then there is a quick reference guide that is a super cool.

It is like a one page cheat sheet, all of the most important tips on there and tricks. Like that cheat sheet alone, like I would pay the 50 bucks for. Anyway, you can get the ultimate edition or you can get just the audio, just the Ebook, just the physical, and all that good stuff. Again, BiggerPockets.com/negotiatingbook. If you cannot remember that, just go to the bookstore. It is up in the navigation bar. Anything you all want to add to that?

J: No, that was great.

Brandon: Alright, yes, look at that. Alright, it is really fantastic. I mean you guys really are like changing the game here. It is one of those, again, I say this with some of the other books that we have done but I will say it again here, maybe even more so than any other book we have launched. Like it would be almost impossible I feel like to not make way more in the next hundred years of your investing career then what a $50 or $20 or $30 book costs, right? Like it is one of those like returns on investment that is like infinite. Tu sais ce que je veux dire? Like if one tip helps somebody negotiate one better deal and get 1% more on the sales price or 1% lower on a purchase price, well there you just paid for itself. You might go get it, get one and get one for a gift for somebody else, but we had to move on. I am going to start with you, Mark.

Carol: That is awesome, Brandon.

Brandon: Well, thank you.

Mark: D'accord.

Brandon: We will start with, Mark. Mark, what is your favorite? If you have one tip or something that is just, maybe not a favorite, but something that you just think is cool that you use in your business and if you have a story to go with it, even better. We will start with you.

Mark: Yes, I still buy most of my deals from the MLS. I am doing two to three properties a month and we are in Colorado, which is a crazy market. It is not like we have a ton of properties.

Brandon: No, but Mark, you cannot find deals on the MLS. Clearly, right?

Mark: I did it, that is impossible.

David: Do not do it.

Mark: Yes, I hear it all the time. But I do a few things in my offers. They get them accepted over other higher offers all the time. The first thing, obviously, we act really fast. First day, we will submit offers. I only have asked for an inspection in like 95% of my deals. I do not ask for an inspection. That is part of experience, walking through a house, knowing what to look for and always building room into your price for those unknowns. But the other cool thing I do is I will always make them cash offers, but I still get alone.

I will not have any inspection contingency, no appraisal, no loan conditions but I have got private lenders, I have used hard money before, I have used banks and all I do is I write a little clause that says, ‘Hey, I have the cash available to buy this house. However, I may use a private loan or a bank loan to purchase it but it will not affect the seller at all.’ No contingencies, none of that. That allows me to do these kind of cash like deals but still use, I can do 100% financing still. That is one trick that has really helped me get more deals.

Brandon: Because I struggle with that. That whole like, I want to say cash because it is cash sort of but it is like I will do the hard money lender sometimes. Sometimes I will pay cash for it. I never really know what to do there. I am going to totally take that from now on every offer. I am going to have that little clause in there that says I might use a form of financing, but

it does not affect you at all. Yes, that was worth this hot cost of this interview right there.

Mark: The first couple of deals I did, I just wrote cash. Then the title companies are like, ‘Why are you getting a loan?’ I am like, well, it is not really like… You have to do it. I am like, okay, I made that little clause. Never had a problem since then.

Brandon: Love it, love it.

J: We do the same thing on every one of our offers.

Brandon: Why did you not told me this stuff before, come on?

David: Brandon, I do this all the time too. I think you are the only one who does not do it.

Brandon: No, I always talk about the whole like low cash. Yes, whatever. Alright, J or Carol? Carol, Carol.

Carol: I will go. I actually have two. The first one is it goes back to something you said earlier, Brandon. It is all about kind of get the ebgbs when it comes to negotiation. People just do not like it, right? My number one tip is negotiate everything always for the simple purpose of I am just learning how. You are always, always, always practicing. Every time you go to home depot, I do not care if there is a sale, I do not care if it is not scratching down, I do not care what it is. Talk to somebody and ask if you can get it for a lower price and you will be amazed, maybe will not be amazed, you always get something for a lower price. They can always figure out a way to do it. No matter where you are, maybe not the grocery store that is excessive, but just negotiate everything always in. Like I said, it just keeps you in the mindset of waiting and being patient and all those things you need to do as part of a successful negotiation.

Brandon: You probably could do the negotiations though. Imagine you get a big bag of oranges, right? It is like you find the one bag that has something wrong with one of the oranges, right? Like you go put it in the thing and then as they are weighing it up, oh wait, there is something wrong with that one. Can I just get a discount on that one since there is one orange bad? Sure, we will take off half price.

Carol: Certainly, they will just take it off of the thing because it is easier to do that than go back and replace it. Always ask because you have to remember the worst that can happen is they can say no. Number one negotiating tip is always, always, always negotiate everything.

J: Can I throw something in about that?

Carol: Oui.

J: When I was in the corporate world, my company that I worked for paid a lot of money for me to take this high price negotiating course. It was a couple of day of course and I remember our homework on the first day was go to a department store, pick out an item that I wanted to buy anyway and negotiate the price. Basically, the goal there was going into the place where you are least likely to get a discount on something and doing the best you can because what you realize is it is, it is kind of like for all the guys out there that that have like hit on women or asked women out and it is terrifying. It is terrifying, it is nerve wracking, and you do not want to be rejected. But what you do not realize is there is nothing wrong with rejection.

When you are negotiating, there is nothing wrong with having the other person say no. The more times you hear no, no, no, no, no, and trust me when it comes to women, I know this really well. Carol was the only one that was brave enough to say yes. If you hear enough no’s, you get desensitized and it makes it a lot easier and a lot of us are just so terrified of getting that person know that we never try it. But you realized that the worst thing they can do is say no. Here is the homework that I have for everyone, just listening to this. Go to JC Penny or Macy’s or some department store tonight, pick out something that you are going to buy anyway and do your best to try and negotiate just to see what the other person says. They might be so caught off guard that they say, well I do have a 15% coupon here that we are allowed to use for customers. Great, you just got 15% off. Not only you just get 15% off, but you know that there is a coupon sitting behind the desk. The next 50 times you go, you get 15% off that time too.

Brandon: Well, what is funny is that every time somebody has ever emailed me or like sent me like an Instagram message, I get a lot of Instagram messages over on @BeardyBrandon, like that plug? Like I get a lot of Instagram messages. People occasionally maybe like once a month, maybe once every couple of weeks, will say, ‘Hey, is there any current discount codes for our pro membership?’ I do not think I have ever want not giving them a discount code for a pro membership. Like every time, because I am like I know if we have a sale running, I know what it is on my head. It would be easier for me to write that to them, it does not affect me at all, and give it to them. Like that would save them potentially up to a $100 a year on their pro membership just by asking me that question. Like very few people ever do that but now I am going to get slammed, but yes.

Mark: What is that code?

Carol: Rebates.

Brandon: We should make a code just for the show. Hey, people who are listening to the show right now, we submit the code negotiating. Negotiating gets a 20% off a pro membership right now.

J: You will know, you have to buy if you buy the book.

Brandon: Oh, if you buy the book, 20% off your pro membership. Yes, use the code negotiating. We will make that happen.

J: There you go.

Brandon: Kevin is our podcast producer. Kevin, I am putting you in charge of that one. We make that happen.

J: Get her done. Carol, I am sorry. You have a second tip.

Carol: No, that was fantastic. My second tip is every negotiation always practice patience. Sit back and wait. I know I have said it before and I cannot emphasize it enough. I want to share a recent story. I was selling a property and we listed it and we had a ton of showing everything now, something like 40 some showings the first weekend, et Cetera, et Cetera, et cetera. An agent called me over and over and over and over and if she really wanted it and sends me an offer and it was the lease price on the house was 650. She brings me an offer for 625 and basically no contingent… The financing contingency but really really simple deal. This was actually, this was not an investment property, this was a deal I was selling for a friend. I took it to my friends, the sellers, and I was like, guys, we were thrilled with the 625 offer but I am like, ‘Eh, I am just going to sit back and not entertain this right now.’ I just waited a day.

J: She approached the property really high.

Carol: Priced the property really high. We are like let us just see if anyone bites, let us see what happens, right? I priced it at 650, they bring me an offer for 625. Sellers are thrilled. I wait a good 24 to 36 hours. I am like I am just going to hang tight. Agent calls me back a day and a half later, apologizing for sending me such a low offer. I so wish we could have brought more to the table. They really really really want the property. I am just sitting here listening and listening and listening, thinking, oh my goodness, we were ready to accept this offer but now you are apologizing that you think it is too low. Well, who has the power now? It shifted all the power, we ultimately landed at 648 on that property and it all worked itself out. But it is just one quick and dirty of many, many examples where if you just sit back and wait the person to a point. You do not want to like freak people out too much but you got to let them freak out just a little, got to cause a little bit of friction. If you make it too easy, then people go away feeling like, oh, maybe I should thought a little bit more. But if you are patient and you wait it out, you very often end up with a better deal.

J: Carol and I have literally made hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last 10 years because she is so good at this. If it were just me, I hate doing it. I get an off her and it is like it is the same way when I get texts or emails. It is just like I do not like things sitting on my plate, I just respond to immediately. If I get an offer, I am nervous and Carol is always like, ‘Ah, we will call him back tomorrow or the next day or the day after and it is driving me nuts because I just want to get a deal done, I just want get something locked up and she is like, ‘Nope, just wait.’ Invariably, I mean we make more money. The longer we wait, the more money we make and it is so effective. I could not do it myself, but luckily Carol does support me.

Carol: That is sweet.

Brandon: Yes, there you go.

Carol: It is that old adage, the person who cares the least has the most power.

Brandon: Oui.

Carol: Garde cela à l'esprit. If you care less, you do have more power.

Brandon: That is fantastic. Very, very cool. Alright, let us move on. J, did you have one to do? Did I ask you? Did you got rejected one?

J: I am going to give one real quick. This is another thing Carol is so good at. She is so good at research. Constantly, I mean, if somebody makes an offer she finds their Instagram, their Facebook, she finds him on LinkedIn. She will go back and look through property records, she will call family members and ask them questions. I mean she will do anything. It is amazing what you can find if you are willing to do a little bit of research. We have a story in the book that I really love. We had this property that we were selling and it was a few years ago and we listed it and we got no offers and it was like two weeks and we were getting ready to drop the price.

We had a showing and we got a low offer on the property. I do not remember any of the numbers on the deal but we got a low offer on the property and we were getting ready to accept it because we are going to drop the price anyway that weekend. Carol was like, ‘Okay, well let me do some research on the potential buyers.’ She has done research and she comes to me and she says you got to come see this. I actually took a screenshot of this and I put it in the book because I know nobody would believe me if I did not screenshot. I did it at that moment because I knew it was going to be useful at some point. She found the person on Facebook, this is a few years ago back when everybody’s Facebook profiles were public and this woman, we knew that she was looking at this house.

She had a boyfriend or a husband that was far away that did not come with her but she wanted him to see the house and she wrote a post on Facebook and I am reading it out of the book. She wrote on Facebook, ‘Was getting ready to give up on this trip but I think we found our house today!’ Exclamation point. Made an offer this morning and waiting to hear back from the agent. I have a name blacked out here for privacy, blank, has not seen it yet but I know he is going to love it. Best part is it is only a couple blocks from, and there is another blacked out name there. We could be neighbors!!! Doigts croisés. Basically this woman went on Facebook and wrote a Facebook post that she was so excited about this offer that she made, her boyfriend or husband or whoever it was going to love the property and they could be neighbors to somebody that they knew. Basically, this told Carol, especially because she was doing the negotiating everything she needed to know.

Brandon: Oui.

J: This was the house, this was the last house they were going to look at. She said finally was getting ready to give up. This was the last house they were going to look at. It was the perfect house for them but they put in a low offer. Ultimately, what happened, we did not drop the price. We negotiated. I do not remember if we have got full price for it but I am sure we got close to full price for it because this person put information out there that we were able to leverage. Research is that important.

Brandon: We did the exact same thing on one of the last projects we did. We looked in their Facebook, find out some really good information about how excited they were about it, yes.

J: Oui.

Brandon: I mean like we have to remember too as when we are selling a property. Like as an investor it is a number’s game for us. We just like throwing a number. We do not get an offering, not a big deal. When you were selling properties though, if somebody goes to the hassle of making an offer, like that is a pretty big deal to people. Like they want the house. Like they do want it a lot of times. Like they are not going to just give it up real easily. When you are selling a property like a flip or whatever, you can I think push a little bit harder in negotiation than maybe we all believe we can. Well, we got to shift this over to the next segment of our show which is our Deal Deep Dive.

Brandon: Alright, guys. We love our sponsors because they help us do this show but also because they really help out BiggerPockets members. I think I mentioned how simply safe got a few mentions on the forums. We actually got one customer on the line to ask him what he thinks of the product. Jim from Pittsburgh, take it away. ‘A lot of neighborhoods, it really does not matter if you leave tools in a property. Just having that renovation in progress there is like hanging a big sign outside that says break in. SimpliSafe stops that kind of thing immediately.

If you want to put the system in quickly, you could use the sticky tape blocks provided if you know it is going to be in place for a while, like in a rehab with a lot of guys going in and out, banging things and moving things around. You screw the components and with the screws provided, you know it is really secure. Well, there you have it, a real life example. SimpliSafe gives you 24 seven monitoring for just $15 bucks a month. Sign up for a 60 day risk free trial and free shipping with free returns if you are not 100% satisfied. Try it today, simplisafe.com/pockets so they know that we sent you that. That is SimpliSafe.com/pockets. Alright, let us get to today’s deal. Deep dive. This is part of the show where we dive deep into one particular deal, that our guests have done today. I believe, Mark, you are the man in the hot seat today. Is that correct?

Mark: Oui.

Brandon: Alright, we are going to jump into this deal of yours and we are going to fly through this because I know we have a hard stop in a short while. We are going to fly through it. Let us start with, first of all, what kind of property is this? Let us start there.

Mark: It is a 68,000 square foot strip mall I bought last year.

Brandon: Whoa.

Mark: That is where I started my office and yes, I decided to go big.

Brandon: Alright, that sounds good. Question number two, David?

David: How did you find this property?

Mark: It was a pocket listing from a commercial agent who I had worked with. I am a broker agent, but I knew to do this big commercial stuff, I had to have help from somebody else.

Brandon: Alright, that is smart. How much was it?

Mark: 2.1 million.

Brandon: Wow, 2.1 million. Alright.

David: How did you negotiate that price?

Mark: Well, he brought it to us as a pocket listing. Told us it was a pocket listing. I had a partner who bought it with me and they are asking 2.25 million. He is like, just buy it at that price. You are dumb if you do not. I am like, well, nobody else knows about it. He wanted to sell it to me so we could get both sides so I said we will come at it to see what happens. It was an amazing deal. Like I would have paid 2.25 no problem. They counter us at 2.1 so I said done, deal. Let us do it

Brandon: Droite. Yes, I think sometimes the agents will be not exactly on our side because they just want… I mean they make no difference, really no big difference commission if they pay 2.2 versus 2.1 but they could lose a deal at 2.1 or 2.2, right? Like an agent will always encourage you to not always, but oftentimes encourage you to do something that is not in your best interest and they are not being bad, it is just how they think.

Mark: It is the business.

Brandon: It is just business. Alright, how did you fund this deal?

Mark: We used a local bank. Part of the reason I brought a partner in was because I did not want to spend $500,000 for a 25% down. My partner helped fund the down payment, we used a local bank and was actually my partners local bank he used because he is a flipper from the past and now he just kind of lends private money. That is why I had my partner, it was to really secure that financing. It was a 4.6% interest rate with a 25 year amortization in a 10 year balloon.

Brandon: That is awesome.

Mark: Oui.

David: To clarify, a pocket listing is a house that is listed for sale with a broker or an agent but it is not put on the MLS where everybody else can get it. It comes from the, before the internet, when agents would have a book of houses for sale and they would put like a piece of paper that showed all the detail. Well, that agent might keep that in his pocket so no one else could see it and it is a way that they can give a deal to someone specifically. It is kind of like an off market deal, but

the person still being represented by agent. Anyway, what did you…

J: From a negotiating perspective, the most interesting part of that deal was the fact that Mark was able to build a relationship with that broker, that the broker brought him that deal before they took it to anybody else.

Mark: Oui.

Brandon: Yes, that started long before the deal ever came out.

Mark: Oui.

J: Exactly.

Brandon: I mean full circle.

David: D'accord. What did you do with this deal?

Mark: I still have it. We bought it at about a nine cap where properties around here were selling at a six cap for commercial. It was an amazing deal. It had a grocery store in it, at coffee shop, restaurant, some office space, and so we basically did nothing to it but I started my own office and started paying myself rent and that increased the income even more. I plan to keep it basically forever.

Brandon: That is cool, that is cool. Well, it kind of comes up, what was the outcome but maybe specifically like I mean do you know like if you are comfortable with saying like what kind of cash flow does this generate a return does this kind of give?

Mark: After our loan, we are making about $10,000 a month on it after all expenses and our loan is paying off $4,000 to $5,000 a month in principal.

Brandon: C'est étonnant.

Mark: Yes, no, yes it is so awesome. I want 10 of them.

Brandon: Oui.

Mark: I want ten of them, I cannot find them.

J: You said you put about $500,000 down, you are making $10,000 cash flow month, which is about $120K a year. Basically you are getting back about 25% cash on cash on that.

Brandon: Yes, that is awesome.

J: That is awesome.

Mark: Not counting the taxes, the principal.

Brandon: Yes, yes.

Mark: All the other stuff.

Brandon: C'est étonnant. Very, very cool. Alright. What lessons did you… Sorry, David. I am taking your question. What lessons did you learn from this deal?

Mark: The biggest one was we almost lost it. We got under contract, we had an inspection on this one because I had never bought anything more than 5,000 square feet before. Inspection came back and said the roof might needs some work, there is some electrical, there is a whole list of stuff. My agent actually is like, okay, we can kind of use this to push against the seller, which is weird because he is representing both of us. I am like, well, alright. But he is like let us really try and get the price down. We asked for I think a $125,000 concession and we did not hear from the seller for weeks. I am like, what is going on? That is the other weird thing about commercial is it is done so different.

It takes so long to get stuff done. I am used to having it done that day. But nothing was happening, I kept asking my agent and eventually he is like, yes, sellers does not want to do it. He wants me to cancel the deal. I am like, what are you talking about? I actually… Our broker accidentally forwarded me some emails that showed some stuff I was not too happy with and so I contacted the seller directly and told him the whole situation. We still wanted the deal. I am like, you know what? We will not even ask for any inspection items, let us just continue. He is like, ‘Okay, cool. I am glad you told me. Let us keep doing. Let us do the deal.’ My big lesson was like we asked for way too much stuff. If we would ask for 25, 50, or some other stuff, we might have got it. But because we went full bore, let us get as much as we can, we got nothing and we almost lost like the most amazing deal in my life. Being realistic with your inspection stuff was my biggest lesson.

Brandon: Alright, that is good. That was a really good, that was a good Fire Round. I mean Deep Dive because we do not always like talk about the commercial side of things but it is a fascinating thing that I am looking to get more into. It sounds like you are as well, awesome.

Mark: J'aime cela.

Brandon: Alright. Before we get to the Fire Round, I want to mention a sponsor, WizeHire. A lot of what we are talking about today involves knowing your personality and the personality of the person you are negotiating with. Here is a great way to know yourself better, take the DISC personality assessment. It is a simple survey that explains a lot about you, I know it did for me. Here is the thing, I am also in the process of hiring a few people right now and I am trying to get to know their personality so this is where WizeHire comes in.

They make it easy to find the best candidates for any job by writing quality ads and then posting the job to 60 plus networks including indeed, LinkedIn and Zip Recruiter. Once candidates start applying, WizeHire automatically gives them a personality assessment and stores are scores as well as their resume in one place for you to review. Over 3000 small businesses and teams trust WizeHire to help them grow. Check it out today at WizeHire.com. With that, it is time for the Fire Round.

It is time for the Fire Round

Brandon: The fire round are the questions that come direct out of the, well, the fire round is. Do I say the ‘Fire Round are’ or the ‘Fire Round is’. The Fire Round is the questions, that is weird to say is not it? Any of you guys grammar?

J: Fire Round, round is singular so is.

Brandon: Fire Round is the questions which sounds weird to say… The question are weird. Alright, the Fire Round is the questions that we ask every guest that come out of the forum. They are different questions every week and we throw them at our guests and so we are going to throw them at you right now flaming hot. Number one, let us go do this one first on J. ‘I found a really nice deal on a single family home. The seller owns the property outright. It seems like she has open to seller financing. I need advice on getting her to agree to this and making it work.’

J: Oui absolument. The nice thing about seller’s financing is because you are not getting a bank loan, you can typically pay more if you provide a lower interest rate. Couple things. One, you are saving money on your upfront loan fees. Let me give you an example from the book and it is this example which is in the book real quick.

Brandon: Sûr.

J: We had a house in a neighborhood. We had bought the house next door. A woman, we send out letters, a woman calls us. She says her dad owns the house, she wants to sell it. I knew the house pretty well because it was right next door to another house we are doing. I knew we can pay 94 for it and she basically said, my dad wants a hundred for it. He is not going to take a penny less. I know that, that is just his nice round number and I could tell that negotiating was not going to help here. Like a hundred was his number. I said… We talked for a while and basically said, what are you going to do with the money? She is like, ‘I do not know. He does not… He is just keeping the money. It is an investment property for him, he does not really need the money for anything. We do not know what we will do with the money.’

Okay, that basically told me everything I needed to know. They did not need the money tomorrow. What I figured was, okay, if I do a zero interest loan, I am going to save. I was going to flip this house over six months on $100,000 loan at I do not know what it was, let us say it was 12% back then. That is $6,000 in interest I was going to pay plus I was going to pay a point or two up front. Basically, I was going to pay $8,000 to get the loan from the bank. What I said to her is I will give you the $100K but I want him to seller finance it for six months for me while I do the flip and then at the end of the flip I will give them the full amount, I will them the $100K then.

Brandon: Oui.

J: I knew I was going to save $8,000 in loan costs, which basically takes my $100K purchase price down to $92,000 which was below my $94,000. Went back and forth a little bit. Ultimately, I gave her like 20,000 down. Did the other 80K later but it worked out because the numbers worked for me. I was saving money by doing the seller financing. That is the story behind the answer. The answer is figuring out how much money you can save by doing seller financing. Figure out if you do a 0% down loan, how much money you are going to save.

If you do not have to pay the origination costs, how much money are you going to save? Then take a portion of that and roll that into the purchase price that you are going to willing to offer. If you are willing to offer $200,000 and you are going to spend 30,000 in loan costs over 30 years, well maybe offer $220,000 for not having any loan costs. They get $20,000 more on the sale price, you save $10,000 on your costs. It is a win win for everybody. That is the benefit of seller financing, you can generally offer more money because you are saving money elsewhere.

Brandon: Really really good, really good. Alright, number two.

David: Number two. This one is for you, Carol. ‘I have a condo under contract that was a foreclosure and it is being sold as is. I just came home from the inspection and there were some problems. The AC breaker was not powerful enough, the furnace needs a tune-up and there was a wet spot on the ceiling from the upper neighbor’s unit. Any tips on how to lower the price after an inspection on an as is sale?’

Carol: Absolutely, that is a great question. We have had lots of those. You might be surprised at just how many foreclosures, how many bank owned properties, how many of the banks are willing to drop that price if they do realize what the true condition of the property is. A lot of times these banks, they have guys that go out and snap a bunch of pictures, but they do not really know exactly the true condition of the property. If you can come in with some solid bids from your contractors on it needs $8,000 in roof work, it $7,000 in duct work. Devine quoi? The AC unit is missing? There are all these things I did not know about and you can provide an itemized list along with contractor bids and present that as one big package back to the bank. Very often they will open up that negotiation process again.

I would say pretty much without fail, every time we have done that, when there are some big ticket items that are substantial, the bank would really rather work with you because they have already started the process and in a lot of times it is been on their books for such a long time. They want to be able to keep that momentum forward. As long as you really go in armed with really good solid information and just say this is what needs to happen, they will very often work with you on that price.

Brandon: That is great. As is, even when list says as is, it is never as is. I mean like…

Carol: Exactly.

Brandon: Oui. I mean like oftentimes like if it is between them losing a deal or not, all of a sudden it is no longer as is. All of a sudden they are willing to move.

Carol: You got to remember that as is often just means they do not want to have to deal with the repairs themselves. They are happy to throw money at the problem, they do not want to throw time at the problem.

Brandon: Yes, I love that. Great tip, great tip. Number three, Mark. ‘I am naturally not very aggressive or confident in myself and I am wondering if that is hurting me. How important is sounding confident in negotiations? If it is important, what can I do to become more sure of myself on the phone?’

Mark: Oh, wow. That is a good question. I am a natural introvert. Like I hate talking on the phone. When I was a kid, I was the person who hid behind my parents’ leg whenever anybody else was around. It can be a problem and I think it is not… You do not have to sound crazy salesman confident, you just have to be yourself. Just talk to people, right? Just talk to people. If you have done your education, if you have learned about real estate, being knowledgeable is the most important thing about being confident.

If you know yourself, just be yourself and just talk to people. If you have a problem with confidence and being… I hear some people say, ‘Well, I am an introvert, I just cannot do that. That is not true, you just do not want to do it. I mean I have spoken at conferences before, it was the scariest thing in my life, but I still did it and you feel absolutely amazing after you do it. You just have to kind of practice. Talk to yourself in the mirror, talk to your friends, role play if you have problems with really, talking to people. The more you do it, the more you practice, the better you will be at it.

Brandon: Yes, really really good tip. Yes, the more you do it, the more you are going to get better at it. I almost wonder also if like talking like being the confident person that really like, high D, like to go to the DISC profile, are like super calm. Like that probably actually hurts oftentimes the negotiations because then people think they are going to get taken care of, taken advantage of rather than taking care of.

David: Oui. Remember that book, Moneyball, that Billy Beane wrote from the Oakland A’s.

J: Oui.

David: He was just like beating everybody in every trade. Well, there came a point where nobody wanted to negotiate with them anymore because they just thought they were going to lose and it actually was not in his best interest to everyone knew he was good at that.

Brandon: Good to know, good to know. Alright, well let us head over to the last segment of the show, which we lovingly refer to as our Famous Four. Alright, these are the same four questions we ask every guest every week. We are going to start. I know Jay, you have answered these before. Mark, you have done it before, but just real quick, let us have everyone just fire off. Favorite real estate book? We will start with J. Current, other than you written.

J: Oh, The Book of Rental Property Investing. The book of Long Distance Investing.

Brandon: Wow, look at that. Wow, nice guy.

J: Honestly, I have spent the last eight months writing and I have not read a book that I have not been writing for the last eight months. I am going to let the other two handle this question.

Brandon: Alright. Carol, current favorite real estate related book?

Carol: I cannot not say The Book on Negotiating Real Estate, Brandon. I mean, come on? I write them. What am I going to tell?

J: Good negotiation there. That was good, that was good. Mark?

Mark: Oh, the current? I really like Gary Keller stuff. It is just so timeless. It is not really that current, but Millionaire Real Estate investors are kind of like a Bible for a lot of people.

Brandon: Oui. When I think Keller, I mean like it changes every year or two for me.

Mark: Not 30 years ago.

Brandon: Oui. Some people’s current favorite might be Nickerson’s, 1752, amazing book. I do not know what it was like in 1920s. But anyway, alright. How about each of you a current favorite business book? Like something that you are just really enjoying from a business standpoint right now or that in your past you have loved?

Carol: I will go. This is an old one. This is from maybe 20 years ago but it is one of my all-time favorites. I still recommend it to everybody. It is Marcus Buckingham’s Discover Your Strengths. It has I think 30 different strengths and it is really good building teams and working with other people. It has worked really well for J and me, for example, because we are are husband and wife investing team and very in the beginning of our working together, we were both positive that we knew everything about everything. We tried doing the same stuff always. But discover your strengths, you figure out who is good at what, divvy up the roles and you are a lot far more successful.

David: Alright. Anything from you, Jay? I am sorry, anything business book for you J or Mark?

Mark: Two Perfect is, I forgot the author’s name. But it is all about like being an OCD and just that book just makes you relaxed and kind of realize nothing not everything has to be perfect. Sometimes doing 90% of the work is just as good as 100% and you get much better results.

Brandon: Alright.

J: Oui. I picked up the one thing, last week we did a little vacation and so I had read it before but I picked it up and read it on the plane on heading out on vacation a couple of weeks ago and just reminded me I really liked that book. It just has some really good high level concepts in there to help you focus and really get your business moving in the right direction and free yourself from the stuff that you should not be focusing on.

Brandon: So true. Alright, hobbies. One word each, hobbies. Sorry, David. I just totally took your question. No, David asked it. I am going to let David ask it.

David: The cat is out of the bag. You guys go ahead. I get paid per question, this is costing me a lot of money

Mark: Cars.

Brandon: Alright, I knew that.

Mark: Oui.

Carol: Building epic box forts.

Brandon: Wow. Carol breaking the rules again.

J: She is getting a lot of the box forts these days.

David: Nice.

J: What are my hobbies? Do I have any hobbies?

David: Clearly not thinking what they are.

Brandon: Cyrpto…

J: Yes, I am going to go with poker.

Brandon: Poker.

David: Poker, that is like a perfect J Scott hobby.

J: I love poker.

Brandon: That is great. Which I still want to play some poker with you, Jay. We have not played yet, but we will get there.

J: Absolument.

David: You will never beat Brandon because he is wildly unpredictable. Brandon’s whole strategy is to like not even know what he is doing. Like you could never read his mind because he does not even know what he is thinking at any given time, yes.

Brandon: It is the best strategy. No, my strategy in poker is easy, I just look at what the guy next to me is doing and I just do exactly what he is doing. If he fold, I fold. If he doubles down, no matter what, it works surprisingly well. Anyway, alright, last question. Because I took yours, David, you want to take mine?

David: Alright. Tell us what sets apart successful investors from those who give up fail or never get started?

J: Okay, I will start. Just taking action every day. It is really that simple. I see too many people that they spent so much time planning and they think about where they want to be a year from now or five years from now or 10 years from now. They get overwhelmed because they think, oh, that is unachievable. But instead, do not think about a year from now or five or 10 years from now. Think about what you are going to do today and every day just do something. I probably use this tip on my last three times on the podcast, but I love it. It is very very rare that I ever meet somebody that has only done one deal in real estate. If you can do that first deal in real estate, you are going to do a whole lot more. Nobody stops at one because after the first, it is easy. That first deal is really tough, but just keep going to get that first deal. I promise you, once you get that first one, you are going to do a whole lot of deals.

Brandon: Alright.

Mark: I would mention knowing your market. So many people do not know what a house is worth or they do not know if they are getting a good deal. If you know you are getting a good deal, it makes buying it so much easier. Once you do it, like Jay said one time, it just snowballs and you keep doing it over and over and over again. But you have to study your market, you have to know your market, you cannot depend on agents or other people to tell you. You need to know yourself.

Brandon: Alright, that is really good. Merci beaucoup. Lastly, it would be Carol but actually Carol we just lost her. We will come back to that or you all can follow up with Carol actually over on the show notes, over on BiggerPockets.com/show321. But you guys, this has been fantastic. I think we got one final question. David Greene here will ask the final question.

David: David, tell us, how can people find out more about each of you?

Mark: Alright, investfourmore.com is my blog, investfourmore.com. Started about six years ago, have a bunch of articles on there. We do videos of almost all my flips and rentals on YouTube, the Investment Four More Channel. I have a few books, besides this one as well that I have written and you can always email me, Happy to talk to people and help any way I can.

David: Jay, where can we find you and Carol?

J: 123flip.com is our blog, the numbers 123flip.com. We are on BiggerPockets’ J Scott and Carol Scott. You can find me on Facebook. J Scott Investor, J Scott Investor is my Facebook handle and 123flip on Twitter if anybody wants to follow me on Twitter.

Brandon: Alright, sounds good. Well, thank you guys all for joining us today. It has been a fantastic show. I hope this is helping a lot of people negotiate better. I know it has definitely helped me. Without further ado, I will let David Greene just take us out.

David: This was awesome. Thanks you guys. This is David Greene for Brandon ‘I buy houses cash, well, with someone’s cash’ Turner, signing out.

You are listening to a BiggerPockets Radio, simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you are here looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hike, you are in the right place. Be sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from BiggerPockets.com. Your home for real estate investing online.